Watts Up...?
Aug 28, 2021 at 10:52 PM Post #2,642 of 2,754

x RELIC x

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Ziggy,

I had asked myself the same question as I use the TT2 as a pre amp and would have liked to feed an analog signal to my main amp through the TT2 for convenience… the main power amp only has one input so I have to do a bit of disconnecting And reconnecting otherwise. An analogue input to the TT2’s amp section would have added some versatility and convenience… but hey, it’s pretty perfect as it is so no complaints from me - just hand me those cables please…

T

The most common misconception about Rob’s designs is that there is a separate analogue section. No. The analogue section is tied directly to the output of the Pulse Array DAC and can’t be bypassed or used as a separate component… because it isn’t a separate component, hence the excellent digital volume control. The design is very different from other DAC/amp setups.
 
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Aug 28, 2021 at 11:11 PM Post #2,643 of 2,754

TonyTripleA

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Thanks for the explanation Relic… I guess I shouldn’t expect an analogue in on future products either… I’m happy to go with the excellent sound quality instead!

t
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 12:35 AM Post #2,644 of 2,754

TheHifiBear

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I have a Dave and M Scaler and apparently have some bad electric wiring, or something, in my house (I plan to have an electrician look at that).

It means I have to ground the wall plugs in the wall outlet (Schuko plug -> adapter with 3 legs -> Danish wall outlet).

If I don’t do that you can feel the current running on the component chassis connected to the wall outlet.

As the M Scaler only uses a figure eight power plug I can’t ground it that way.
I tried connecting a BNC cable from an unused M Scaler input to a Dave unused BNC output. It fixed the current running on the M Scaler chassis.

So here is the question:
Is that a good idea to do (any dangers/issues)?

I’m receiving a pair a Wave Storm any day now. Will connecting the extra BNC cable for grounding kill the purpose of the the Wave cable by making another route for the noise to enter Dave?

I have a power strip (Cardas Nautilus) with a grounding input to a one kilo cobber plate. Would connecting unused M Scaler BNC to that make sense, or reinstate the noise issue as well because a loop is created?
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 1:20 AM Post #2,645 of 2,754

Vyyy

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I did say I can't give more details! Research is ongoing, but I have made a huge amount of progress so far in a number of different areas. You will have to wait till later next year to hear the results - but I can say that it will be another xM scaler intended to match Dave...
You rock!

But i was wondering after your post, will this new scaler be suitable to work with full upsample with TT2?
Its important for those who intend someday to go to choral path.

Thanks.
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 2:00 AM Post #2,646 of 2,754

TopQuark

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You rock!

But i was wondering after your post, will this new scaler be suitable to work with full upsample with TT2?
Its important for those who intend someday to go to choral path.

Thanks.
The hint there is "intended to match Dave". So we will likely see an mScaler 4M+ taps with Daves footprint.

I see requests for pre-amp on TT2. It will be nice to see a TT2 stack that consist of:
- TT2 DAC
- mScaler 1M
- TToby Amp
- TT2 Pre-Amp
- TT2 Streamer
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 2:49 AM Post #2,647 of 2,754

Rob Watts

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Hi Rob
Can you recommend a way I can play an analogue source into a TT2?
Thanks for any help
Richard

I don't have any specific recommendations for an ADC - but if you do go down the path of getting an ADC, go for as high a sample rate as possible, preferably 768kHz.

I will be testing my pulse array ADC soon, and if that goes well - please note big if - then a unit will be available to support analogue inputs, as this is my long term intent, as well as producing ADCs for recordings.

No, you dont have a preamp in the TT2, you have a dac with a variable volume output. It is a different thing. There is no preamp in the TT2. Converting an analogue source to digital just so you can out it through the TT2 does not make sense from a sound quality point of view although it might make sense from a convenience point of view.

Absolutely from a convenience POV; but don't write it off from a sound quality POV either. Analogue has lots of unsolvable problems - for example volume controls. My digital volume control is much more transparent than an analogue one. Moreover, my pulse array ADC is very simple on the analogue side, and of course the DACs are too; we may be faced with greater overall simplicity by using a pulse array ADC/DAC combo than using pre-amps and power amps. My goal is to do exactly that - making digital more transparent and musical than analogue.

I have a Dave and M Scaler and apparently have some bad electric wiring, or something, in my house (I plan to have an electrician look at that).

It means I have to ground the wall plugs in the wall outlet (Schuko plug -> adapter with 3 legs -> Danish wall outlet).

If I don’t do that you can feel the current running on the component chassis connected to the wall outlet.

As the M Scaler only uses a figure eight power plug I can’t ground it that way.
I tried connecting a BNC cable from an unused M Scaler input to a Dave unused BNC output. It fixed the current running on the M Scaler chassis.

So here is the question:
Is that a good idea to do (any dangers/issues)?

I’m receiving a pair a Wave Storm any day now. Will connecting the extra BNC cable for grounding kill the purpose of the the Wave cable by making another route for the noise to enter Dave?

I have a power strip (Cardas Nautilus) with a grounding input to a one kilo cobber plate. Would connecting unused M Scaler BNC to that make sense, or reinstate the noise issue as well because a loop is created?

The issue is leakage currents from the PSU - and it does vary from country to country - it's never been an issue with me at home, but it can be an issue when I travel. At home my neutral is very close to ground potential, and I think that's something to do with it. Get your electrician to check neutral to ground voltage. Grounding will solve the issue, but grounding via Dave will not be the best from a SQ POV, as the galvanic isolation on the OP's will be shorted out. If you need to ground it using the M scaler BNC input then try to use another ground that is far away from Dave. You could power it via a battery, and that would eliminate the issue too, and give the best SQ.

Another way is to ground via a high resistance value resistor, as the leakage current is only 100uA.

You rock!

But i was wondering after your post, will this new scaler be suitable to work with full upsample with TT2?
Its important for those who intend someday to go to choral path.

Thanks.

Sure it will be compatible with all dual input Chord DACs for the max upsampling.
 
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Aug 29, 2021 at 6:42 AM Post #2,649 of 2,754

TheHifiBear

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@Rob Watts thanks a lot for the suggestions. Will pass that one to the electrician.

Using a battery could be the answer as well, I just don’t fancy invalidating the warranty as the M scaler is still covered.

and duly noted regarding the Dave BNC, will defer from that route!

Does the leakage current in the M Scaler affect SQ? And leakage current in general?
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 8:10 AM Post #2,650 of 2,754

flyte3333

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Converting an analogue source to digital just so you can out it through the TT2 does not make sense from a sound quality point of view although it might make sense from a convenience point of view.

Absolutely makes sense if you have an analogue recording that has dynamic range not available in any digital release... and then one can apply digital room correction to this analogue source to EQ room related issues.

This can be spectacular improvement in sound quality... compared to raw analogue without room correction or compared to the different digital mastering that maybe doesn't have the original dynamic range.

It just needs modern thinking, outside the box, not old thinking :)

If you've never heard state of the art digital room correction, you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Needs to be experienced.

Of course if you have the perfect room acoustics already, then possibly not required.
 
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Aug 29, 2021 at 8:11 AM Post #2,651 of 2,754

Jawed

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I have a Dave and M Scaler and apparently have some bad electric wiring, or something, in my house (I plan to have an electrician look at that).

It means I have to ground the wall plugs in the wall outlet (Schuko plug -> adapter with 3 legs -> Danish wall outlet).

If I don’t do that you can feel the current running on the component chassis connected to the wall outlet.

As the M Scaler only uses a figure eight power plug I can’t ground it that way.
I tried connecting a BNC cable from an unused M Scaler input to a Dave unused BNC output. It fixed the current running on the M Scaler chassis.
If your electrician confirms that you have a DC offset problem with the mains supply running in your house and he has no solution for you, then perhaps a DC blocker such as:

http://www.jenving.com/products/view/dc-blocker-md01-16-eu-3024000378

would help. I'm not recommending this unit, as I have not used it and I don't know anyone who does. In fact I'm only linking to it to demonstrate that such products exist. There are many companies making devices like this.

That particular unit does not include a cable to connect it to the wall. Notice that the IEC socket it uses for the connection to the wall is not the kind that you normally see on hi-fi components. It's a high-current socket rated for 16 amps.
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 9:51 AM Post #2,652 of 2,754

TheHifiBear

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If your electrician confirms that you have a DC offset problem with the mains supply running in your house and he has no solution for you, then perhaps a DC blocker such as:

http://www.jenving.com/products/view/dc-blocker-md01-16-eu-3024000378

would help. I'm not recommending this unit, as I have not used it and I don't know anyone who does. In fact I'm only linking to it to demonstrate that such products exist. There are many companies making devices like this.

That particular unit does not include a cable to connect it to the wall. Notice that the IEC socket it uses for the connection to the wall is not the kind that you normally see on hi-fi components. It's a high-current socket rated for 16 amps.
Thanks for the advice. I actually owned one of these in the past, but sold it as I felt it sacrificed the dynamics of the music.

I didn’t have the DC/leakage issue when we moved in. I noticed it at the same time an electrician fixed our oven.
So hopefully a solution exists in back tracking what he did.

By the way, I just removed my McIntosh C47 from the chain, sending Dave directly to my monoblocks and can verify that made a huge difference to the sound to the better.
Less bloomy bass, ton of depth added and everything sounds more relaxed, slower and natural.

It doesn’t mean every pre amp will decrement the sound as mine did, but Rob definitely has weight behind his claim if you ask me.
Just my 5 cent
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 10:54 AM Post #2,653 of 2,754

Kentajalli

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it is very unlikely that mains electricity would carry any DC.
I believe Mr. Watts was referring to AC leak into neutral line. Neutral line should be at ground level I.e. 0V AC or DC for that matter.
use a voltmeter , the neutral to ground should be at 0V, if there is any residual, then the metal case might feel electrified to the touch.
to avoid ground loop, you can use a high power 10 ohm resistor through which you earth your equipments.
Alternatively , buy some 5A rectifier diodes, get two and connect them in parallel making sure one of them has reverse polarity to the other, earth through that.
what the diodes do is allow fraction of a volt passthrough , but anything more would blow your fuse, for safety.
 
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Aug 29, 2021 at 11:02 AM Post #2,654 of 2,754

Kentajalli

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Absolutely makes sense if you have an analogue recording that has dynamic range not available in any digital release... and then one can apply digital room correction to this analogue source to EQ room related issues.

This can be spectacular improvement in sound quality... compared to raw analogue without room correction or compared to the different digital mastering that maybe doesn't have the original dynamic range.

It just needs modern thinking, outside the box, not old thinking :)

If you've never heard state of the art digital room correction, you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. Needs to be experienced.

Of course if you have the perfect room acoustics already, then possibly not required.
This is a one in thousand exception case .
Ad right as you might be, for more than 99% of cases @Triode User is correct, unless one is streaming fairly long distances.
 
Aug 29, 2021 at 11:24 AM Post #2,655 of 2,754

flyte3333

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This is a one in thousand exception case .
Ad right as you might be, for more than 99% of cases @Triode User is correct, unless one is streaming fairly long distances.

It's not really about who is more correct.

It's more about people perhaps not being aware of what is possible.

Especially if you haven't experienced what I wrote, it can be hard to appreciate what I'm talking about.

From an earlier exchange I think @ecwl might be the only person in this thread that understands (maybe not the analogue sources part but definitely state of the art room correction part).
 
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