Wadia 861?
Sep 22, 2003 at 9:41 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 31

bifcake

Headphoneus Supremus
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What do you guys think about Wadia 861? How does it compare to Levinson 390s or Musical Fidelity NuVista?

Is Sim Audio's Moon Eclipse any good?

Thanks
 
Sep 22, 2003 at 10:21 AM Post #2 of 31
I have read many great reviews of the Wadia 861, specifically compared to the Levinson 390. At this level the differences are very subtle. In all honesty you really have to listen not only to both players at length, but also matched as closely as possible to your current setup (even with the same cables if possible), to hear what pertains to you.

I personnal prefer the Levinson (I currently own a Meridian 508.20), over the wadia, but that is realy just a matter of taste.
 
Sep 22, 2003 at 5:06 PM Post #3 of 31
I own an 861, and I think it's an outstanding player. I agree with picklgreen - at this level of performance, it's less about which is a better player, and more about which player best aligns to your aural taste and sonic priorities. The 861 is the most solid CD player I've ever seen. It's the size of a small car and built like a Humvee. It looks like it is worth every penny of its asking price.

How does it sound compared to the 390S? It's curious that you ask that question. I just purchased a used 390S (I've wanted to hear a 390S, and with buying used, if I don't like it, I can resell at the same price for which I bought it). The Levinson is also well-built, but doesn't possess the sheer size and mass of the Wadia. Both are very nice looking components.

I currently run the Wadia and Levonson via the single-ended outputs; please take that into account as you read my comments. I understand that the Wadia and Levinson both improve when one can run balanced. My next project is to replace my Kimber interconnect with the balanced version.

I do think that the differences between the two players are fairly substantial, assuming the rest of the system is revealing enough to pass along those differences. In comparing the Levinson with the Wadia, I'm running both players direct into the amp. The Levinson imparts an analog liquidity to the presentation. Bass is stronger than the Wadia, and the treble is a little airier, a little more extended. The midrange is more recessed than the Wadia. There is an overall ease to the presentation - everything is extremely balanced sounding. The Levinson is a little warmer sounding than the Wadia, a little richer - again, more analog-like.

The Wadia, on the other hand, really belts out the dynamics, making the Levinson seem a little laid back in comparison. The Wadia is drier than the Levinson . The Wadia is a little leaner sounding with more forwardness in the midrange.

Where the two differ the most, however, is in the soundstaging/imaging department. Again, the Levinson's presentation is very liquid and smooth. The Levinson is much more laid back than the Wadia - the soundstage is more recessed, starting a few feet back behind that portrayed by the Wadia. The Wadia's soundstage is more forward (although the Wadia does a better job of dpth layering - images are more clearly delineated from front to back), and the images are larger. The Wadia really excells in imaging - there's a three-dimensionality to the images (almost like someone is pulling the singer's nose to create a three-dimensional head from the flatter picture presented by the Levinson), the likes of which I've never heard from any other player (Krell, Cary or the Levinson). I think this is due to the phase-correct Digimaster DACs and filters employed in the 861, and once heard, it's very addictive.

I'm still going back and forth, but I really find it very hard to turn off the Wadia and plug in the Levinson. The music is simply more alive sounding through the Wadia, with instruments more "there" than through the Levinson. That said, I wish I could have a little of the warmth that the Levinson brings to the party. It's all about compromise, though, no?

The bottom line is that they are both top-shelf players, but their differences will cause them to each appeal to folks based upon their individual preferences. Keep in mind also that system matching is probably important. This is how they sound in my system; if possible, they should be auditioned in the context of your own system.

Hope this helps a little to answer your question!
 
Sep 22, 2003 at 5:33 PM Post #4 of 31
John, I enjoyed your comparison of the Wadia and the Levinson. I too have heard some amazing imaging and dynamics through the Wadia equipment. Just wondering--are your imaging comments using speakers or headphones?
 
Sep 22, 2003 at 10:19 PM Post #5 of 31
JohnActon, when you move to balanced give a listen to the Cardas Golden Refrence. I run all of them in my system (cd to preamp, tuner to preamp, preamp to amp) all fully balanced and they are amazing cables.
 
Sep 23, 2003 at 2:55 AM Post #6 of 31
I would like to put in a vote for the Simaudio Moon Eclipse. The Eclipse has a very "tube like" sound that is never harsh or fatiguing. I run it balanced using a Totem Sinew interconnect. It sounds great!
 
Sep 23, 2003 at 4:04 AM Post #7 of 31
Canman, at the risk of sounding heretical and incurring the wrath of the head-fi guardian angels, I have changed up from a headphone-based system to a speaker-based system. All my comments reflect speaker-based listening. My speakers (Audio Physic) excel at soundstaging and imaging, so perhaps they really highlight the differences I experienced between the two players in those regards.

Bifcake, the Cardas family of cables is one that I've never heard but have always been interested in. I really like my Kimber Select IC that I'm currently using, however. I recently auditioned some high-end balanced interconnects on loan from the Cable Company (Synergistic Research, Nirvana, Siltech), and while they all sounded different (duh) and in some areas outperformed the Kimber, there's something about the magical midrange of the Kimber that kept me coming back. Ultimately, I've decided to upgrade to the balanced (KS-1130) version and sell my single-ended 1030 on Audiogon.

I haven't heard the Eclipse, but I listened to the Sim Nova CD player in a system comprised of a Sim I-5 integrated and Reference 3A De Capo speakers (can't remember the cabling). Very musical player. Sim stuff is highly regarded, and you can get a used Eclipse on Audiogon fairly reasonably.
 
Sep 23, 2003 at 8:46 AM Post #8 of 31
Great posts, guys. Thank you. If you had a choice of running either the Wadia 861, MF NuVista or Levinson 390S, which would you choose?

The equipment that this would be feeding into would be Cary 300SEI feeding the HD580s with an Equinox cable.

Thanks again.
 
Sep 23, 2003 at 8:51 AM Post #9 of 31
With the Cary I would have to go with the Meridian 508-20 (or 24). The Meridian has a more tubelike sound to it (IMO) than the Levinson, and I have listened to it with that very amp.

...its too bad that highend preamps don't have headphone out stages!!!
 
Sep 24, 2003 at 5:39 PM Post #10 of 31
Go for the Cary 303/200. There's one at UpscaleAudio.com unused in an open box (outside box, not inside) for $1050 ($3k retail) as long as you are feeding into a Cary amp. It has been compared to the Wadia and the Levinson 39. I heard Wadia is out of business. If you can afford more go for the 306/200.
I agree with the Cardas Golden reference but they are $$$. Read the reviews. Just my opinion.
 
Sep 24, 2003 at 8:19 PM Post #12 of 31
Jefemeister,

Why did Stereophile drop the entire Wadia line from their recommended components list due to uncertain availability?
 
Sep 24, 2003 at 9:43 PM Post #13 of 31
Quote:

Originally posted by immtbiker
....I heard Wadia is out of business....


I've visited the Wadia headquarters a few times (they hosted one of our Head-Fi Meets, too), and it seemed very clear to me that they're definitely not out of business.

In fact, in discussions with Wadia's president and their vice president of sales and marketing about their current state of business, and their business plan moving forward, it was made even clearer to me that this is a company that is very much in business.

Add to that the fact that jefemeister brought over a prototype that floored everyone at the most recent Detroit Meet, and I think the road ahead is looking pretty good for them.

P.S. In keeping with this thread's theme, I lived with the Wadia 861 (not the 861se) for about a month, and it was the best digital to ever grace my main rig. Wadia 861 + Antique Sound Lab Twin Head Mark II = some of the best audio I've yet heard.
 
Sep 24, 2003 at 10:10 PM Post #14 of 31
The 861 is currently ranked in 'Class A' of Stereophile recommended components (as of April, 2003; I haven't received my October issue yet).

I wanted to reiterate again how good a player the 861 truly is - while the Levinson and Cary 306/200 players are also very good, neither draws me into the musical event as convincingly as does the Wadia. With the Wadia, it's difficult to listen "in the background". The Wadia has this ensorcelling way of compelling you to focus on the music, the vividness of the event that's occuring in front of you. As I said before, once experienced, this phenomenon is difficult to give up.
 
Sep 24, 2003 at 10:37 PM Post #15 of 31
The systems I have listened to with Wadia as the source sound more real than any other system I have listened to, and this is on a wide range of equipment.

Levinson, Krell, and the like did not do as well to create a tangible realism that all the wadia systems I have to do so well.

Indeed, Wadia is not out of business, nor was there ever any hint of doing so. It seems to me that Wadia and Stereophile are not on the same wavelength, which is a shame since so many people automatically take Stereophile's views as truth. Folks forget they are a media company and not a perfect source of industry information. Off topic, I think the publication has gone downhill in the last few years.
 

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