W5000 fit (as in on your head) and bass

[mulveling]

My W5000 has got about 100 hours on it now and I'm still distraught by the balance - not enough bass, which makes music sound unnatural to me. I decided to try it on the HA2002 (as opposed to the Sugden it was burning in on) and things got a little better. I listened for a while (G08 as the source), and of course it still sounded too thin and cold on pop and rock. Then I plugged in the W2002, and lo the W2002 sounded warm, thick, and dark in comparison. Now this shouldn't happen, since the W2002 is none of those things. In fact going from the W5000 to W2002 on the HA2002 was like going from the W2002 + HA2002 to the L3000 + SDS.

Clearly something was up - then it occured to me that the W5000 doesn't snugly grasp my head the way the W2002 & L3000 do. The W5000 grips mostly the part of my face below the ear, while the part of the pad above the ear barely makes contact at all. The W2002 and L3000 do a better job distributing the pressure around the ear, thus creating a better seal.

I pressed on the metal parts between headband and cups (towards my head) while music was playing, (enough so that the top part of the pad was applying as much pressure to my face as the bottom part) and of course, the the W5000 bass finally made its appearance - at least W2002 levels of bass, if not slightly more.

Anyone else having this issue with the W5000 fit? All our head sizes are different and some of you guys really like the W5000 sound, so I suppose some of you are getting a good fit (or you just hate bass

). I'm trying to see what's the cause of the difference in fit, but the W5000 ergonomically looks pretty similar to its predecessors on first inspection - though the earpad diameter may be a bit bigger and perhaps that's part of the problem. Maybe this can was designed for slightly bigger heads than the earlier AT woodies?

 

[crypt@]

So how do you compare W2002 to W5000? I'm undecided at the moment as to which of The three AT cans to add into my collection: AD2000 (At the time of deciding on AD900, though the AD2000 sounded much better in every respect I did not feel it was twice the performer to AD900), W2002 or W5000.

 

[overlunge]

The size of my head is probably about average or even slighly small

And I do find the W5000 a bit more loose fitting then the traditional ATH-W's. However, my understanding is that audio techinica used the same material to make the matalic pipings in W5000 as AD2000. There were several report of the AD2000 being too great in clamping force. And my guess will be that audio techinica then further improved the wearing comfort by reduce the force.

Like I say, W5000 'Raffinato', refined W1000...


Overlunge

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crypt@ So how do you compare W2002 to W5000? I'm undecided at the moment as to which of The three AT cans to add into my collection: AD2000 (At the time of deciding on AD900, though the AD2000 sounded much better in every respect I did not feel it was twice the performer to AD900), W2002 or W5000.

Hard to say. With the stock fit, tonality is too far from my comfort zone (I like a lush, dark signature) to really give it a fair shake. Other than that it doesn't seem to be technically deficient when comapred to the W2002 - keep in mind I have a very high opinion of the W2002. When I press the cups against my head to bring up the bass, it may be as good as the W2002, possibly even slightly better - but I'm not willing to do this as long as it would take for a valid comparison. I doubt I could hold still enough at a constant pressure.

Again, it seems to sound its best on the HA2002, possibly even better with the matching HA5000. Based on my experience I doubt any amp less than $2K, (perhaps even 3K or higher) is going to do a better with these headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlunge The size of my head is probably about average or even slighly small And I do find the W5000 a bit more loose fitting then the traditional ATH-W's. However, my understanding is that audio techinica used the same material to make the matalic pipings in W5000 as AD2000. There were several report of the AD2000 being too great in clamping force. And my guess will be that audio techinica then further improved the wearing comfort by reduce the force. Like I say, W5000 'Raffinato', refined W1000...

Hey Scott. Hmm, I wonder if they overcompensated. They certainly did in my case. Damn, I can deal with clamping force, but this may not be as easy to work around (without modding the headphones). All the more reason why they should hire me as a test model

Do you really find the W1000 to have less overall bass quantity than the W2002? I'm starting to think these might be one of my favorite headphones if I could get a better fit.

BTW, NO rattle problems here

 

[Nik]

I was writing the same...

The W5000 remember me something of the Qualia 010 (but different proportions). Fit is very important for bass and fuller performances. When I speak of burnin time I also think to the time requested for the natural adjust of the pads in the listener's head. Even the listener need a time of "burnin" to know perfectly the new cans. The fit is more important in the W5000 respect to the L3000, because the most precision in resolution of the W5000.

Best!
Nicola

 

[mattigol]

I had the feeling of uneven contact of the pads from the beginning. Mot of the top part of the pads hardly made contact. They kind of wobbled around that way, resulting in a lackluster seal.

Solution: I just gently bent the top part of the metal headframe into a _slightly_ more elliptical shape. Problem solved: I have more pressure between top part of pads and skull, resulting a better seal and immediately better bass and tonal richness. I think it's safe to try it. The metal doesn't brake easily, but be careful not to use too much force, rather "massage" it into the desired shape. Try one metal sprocket at a time, then check and recheck against the other sprocket if you are getting the desired effect. Finally do the other sprocket until both are concentric again.

One problem less to worry about. For now.

With my current configuration and above "mod" applied, I can't really say I am disappointed in the sound at all. I hardly started burn-in (10 hours tops) but feel like I got a high quality headphone that I will be able to tuberoll to great performance. Maybe they need a nice tube amp to sound their best, to take some of their dryness away and make them smoother?

Cheers Matthias

 

[mulveling]

Interesting, thanks for the feedback Nik.
mattigol, I was thinking about that but didn't have the panache to do it last night

Good to hear that the old "Grado bend" worked out for you, I may give that a shot now.

 

[mattigol]

"Grado bend", that's it. Give it a shot, just don't use brute force. Take your time and move forward slowly.

 

[halcyon]

If there are different material pads that fit W5000, that would be one way to adjust the bass.

More solid and less porous the material, the more bass will be heard.

However this will result in the closed chamber resonances above 1kHz becoming more easily perceptible.

regards,
halcyon

 

[Nik]

For those, like me, that comes from the L3000, the 3D system on the head, is different,the W5000 one needs a more pressure (down) to be positioned in the correct position.

I like A LOT the dryness of the W5000, an upgrade to the too smooth signature of the L3000 (IMHO).

Best!
Nicola

 

[mattigol]

Nik,

I obviously haven't anywhere near as much experience with high quality phones and amps as you have had. I am glad you too hear the "dryness" I mentioned.

When building my speaker system I started with some neutral loudspeakers with great dynamic capability and changed source and amp until I had just enough warmth / smoothness to make me perfectly happy. - I can imagine, with the W5000 as fairly dry transducers with great dynamics and my tube amp I can finetune my headphone rig accordingly and get a result that will be very satisfactory to me.

Nik, I wonder: Is it possible to go the reverse route, i.e. start with lush transducers (L3k for one) and add a dry source and corresponding amping components, and get positive results? Just curious....

Matthias

 

[Nik]

I think that a right proportion of lushness/dryness is the best thing...

I think that the W5000 will be very, VERY good in combo with the EarMax AE (f.ex.)...

Source and cables can do the rest for a perfect balanced sound... in some situations just a cable can do the difference...

Best!
Nicola

 

[mulveling]

Alrighty, tonight I gave the W5000 another go - HA2002 and G08 as source again. Jpop and Krall as listening material. This time I pressed the earcups against my head so that the pads were firmly squeezed around my ear - and kept it that way for several songs (a little tiring I must admit). The sound was glorious this way. Probably not quite going to eclipse the L3000 as my fav, but it's definitely better than the W2002 for Jpop and about as good for Jazz/Vocals (Krall). More bass than the W2002. Hard to say how the bass compares to the L3000 until I hook it up to the SDS (which is how I always use the L3000).

Unfortunately this solution sucks, ergonomically. Bending the metal bands won't give it the pressure it needs to get the air out of those pads. It seems like there's so much more air between drivers and ears with the W5000 compared to its predecessors. Those pads are really big and spongy. Maybe W2002 pads on there would help, if they fit.

 

[gurus]

Just move the headband (on top of your head) forward and the earcups slightly back so that the headphones are sitting slightly inclined for better bass and fit.
The W5000's definitely come to life with a tube amp. I don't find the W5000 'dry(ness)' at all.
Enjoy!

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurus Just move the headband (on top of your head) forward and the earcups slightly back so that the headphones are sitting slightly inclined for better bass and fit. The W5000's definitely come to life with a tube amp. I don't find the W5000 'dry(ness)' at all. Enjoy!

Hi gurus,
I've rearranged them in all ways possible, and on my head they still won't seal well enough to give good bass performance. Even a good tube amp doesn't fix it for me. Now when I press the cups against my head, then they have great bass and don't sound dry at all - in fact they're warm, liquid and lush. Very natural sounding. Total change in the tonality. It's quite a night and day difference. Different heads will have different fit experiences.