VPI Scout setup question

Jul 23, 2007 at 10:56 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 21

earwicker7

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Ok, vinyl newbie here! I'm looking at the manual to prepare myself for setting up the table (still waiting on a couple of things for setup, so it may be a couple of days before I get to it) and I'm utterly confused by this part:


• ANTI-SKATING:
One of the least understood forces acting on a tonearm is anti-skating. Skating force is
created by friction between the stylus and the record creating a force vector in a direction
towards the center of the record. Putting a stylus down on a flat grooveless record will cause
the arm to shoot in toward the center of the record. For years arm manufacturers have been
trying to compensate for this force knowing full well that it is impossible. The force is
constantly changing as the music and the velocity changes.
After very careful listening tests we have determined that every tonearm we tried sounded
better with their mechanical anti-skating disabled and the tracking force very slightly
increased. All mechanical anti-skate devices add a negative sound to the music because
they are made of parts that can vibrate. We solve the problem in a unique way:
As mentioned earlier, the arm wire applies the anti-skating force. The degree of force applied
can be adjusted as explained below.
To increase anti-skating force give the connector a counterclockwise twist (unwinding the
twist in the wire). Likewise, to decrease the force, give the connector a clockwise twist
(winding the twist in the wire
We could go on discussing the pros and cons of how much anti-skate is correct, but the sonic
answer is very simple. Adjust the wire as mentioned above until the tonearm drifts outward
when set to neutral balance. When you push the neutral balance floating tonearm towards
the center of the record, it should push back out towards the rim of the record. Very little
force is needed to do this, and the wire acts like a spring to supply this force.
If you try adjusting the anti-skate with a grooveless record you will ruin
the twist in the wire and void your warrantee
This is all you need for anti-skating.


So could anyone put this last part (from "Adjust the wire..." on) into common english? Am I supposed to do this while playing a record? I guess the whole neutral balance part is throwing me off.
 
Jul 23, 2007 at 11:23 PM Post #2 of 21
in super simple..

Anti skating pushes the needle in the other direction it heads (outward) to create a balance of force on the needle..

VPI is a long believer in tonearms not having Anti skating...

in other words if you bought the standard scout that i have then the only anti skating on the tone arm is how many turns you have on the cable to the output box....

just plug the damn thing in and listen to the vinyl..nothing to even consider on your table.
icon10.gif

worry more about the other forms of setup with vinyl..

Freemer has a dvd out on how to setup this stuff in "common english"..check it out..
 
Jul 23, 2007 at 11:26 PM Post #3 of 21
Congrats on a wonderful TT (giant killer stock IMHO)

bhd812 basically answered your question. For further reading check out stereophile's review though. The reviewer go into the whole anti skate issues.
 
Jul 23, 2007 at 11:27 PM Post #4 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
in super simple..

Anti skating pushes the needle in the other direction it heads (outward) to create a balance of force on the needle..

VPI is a long believer in tonearms not having Anti skating...

in other words if you bought the standard scout that i have then the only anti skating on the tone arm is how many turns you have on the cable to the output box....

just plug the damn thing in and listen to the vinyl..nothing to even consider on your table.
icon10.gif

worry more about the other forms of setup with vinyl..

Freemer has a dvd out on how to setup this stuff in "common english"..check it out..




I understand the part about twisting the wires but I'm not really sure what effect I'm looking for. So I just let the arm float, tap it towards the center and see if it rebounds?

And I blame Fremer for my tweaking! If it weren't for his DVD I'd just follow the manufacturer's instructions
blink.gif
. Now I'm looking for every possible thing I can adjust.
 
Jul 23, 2007 at 11:42 PM Post #5 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I understand the part about twisting the wires but I'm not really sure what effect I'm looking for. So I just let the arm float, tap it towards the center and see if it rebounds?

And I blame Fremer for my tweaking! If it weren't for his DVD I'd just follow the manufacturer's instructions
blink.gif
. Now I'm looking for every possible thing I can adjust.



On my scout I just plug it in, I have messed with the twisting once but heard nothing of a difference..

in other words just plug it in and be happy..imo atleast
 
Jul 23, 2007 at 11:47 PM Post #6 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
in other words just plug it in and be happy..imo atleast


Now what kind of audiophile would I be if I did that?
icon10.gif
 
Jul 24, 2007 at 10:21 AM Post #8 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhd812 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
On my scout I just plug it in, I have messed with the twisting once but heard nothing of a difference..

in other words just plug it in and be happy..imo atleast



On a top quality tonearm like the one on the Scout you won't hear any difference with antiskating.

If you don't set it though the force being exerted on the stylus tip will be uneven which will cause the tip to wear on the inner side more than the outer.

You can quite clearly see the results of this under a magnifier if you look at your stylus. There will be a little ridge on one side but not on the other.

Over a long period this will also wear out one side of the groove in your records faster than the other causing channel imbalance.

Having never set up the tonearm on a Scout I can't comment on the efficacy of their system but it sounds very straight forward.

All you are looking for is the arm to drop in a straight line without dragging either right or left so just tweak it until it does this. It's not difficult.
 
Jul 24, 2007 at 4:20 PM Post #10 of 21
I gotta agree with above posters. I didn't hear much of a difference at all. I wouldn't worry about it all that much.
 
Jul 24, 2007 at 4:34 PM Post #11 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif
All you are looking for is the arm to drop in a straight line without dragging either right or left so just tweak it until it does this. It's not difficult.


So let me see if I've got this right--

1. I take the arm off it's holder.
2. I pick a random spot on the record.
3. I let the arm drop (should I do this on a cheap record? "dropping", as opposed to "putting", seems like it could damage stuff).
4. I see if the stylus hits the place I was aiming for and adjust it if not.

I've got a feeling something might be off here. I don't know why I'm having such a problem with this part... everything else in the setup seems extremely easy.
 
Jul 24, 2007 at 5:30 PM Post #12 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So let me see if I've got this right--

1. I take the arm off it's holder.
2. I pick a random spot on the record.
3. I let the arm drop (should I do this on a cheap record? "dropping", as opposed to "putting", seems like it could damage stuff).
4. I see if the stylus hits the place I was aiming for and adjust it if not.

I've got a feeling something might be off here. I don't know why I'm having such a problem with this part... everything else in the setup seems extremely easy.



NO NO!
Once you install the cart, you balance the arm so it "floats" horizonally. (arm lift is down at this point)
With the wire connected the arm should drift towards outside of the record.
If it goes the wrong way or does not move, unplug the wire, give it 1 twist and plug it back in.
After that, set your tracking weight and play on
icon10.gif


If you set tracking to the higher half of the suggested force for your cart, the anti skate won't be much of an issue (ON A VPI).

Assuming all other things like azimuth are correct, incorrect anti skate is heard as a slight channel imbalance. IOW your image won't be centered.

Todd R
Scoutmaster owner
 
Jul 24, 2007 at 5:32 PM Post #13 of 21
Whatever you do ... don't drop it like that if you value the lifespan of a stylus.
 
Jul 24, 2007 at 5:48 PM Post #15 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd R /img/forum/go_quote.gif
NO NO!


Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Whatever you do ... don't drop it like that if you value the lifespan of a stylus.


Yep, that's why I was posting; something seemed wrong.

I think I understand now... before you set anything else up, just let the arm float and see if it drifts towards the outside. Is this correct?
 

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