[depthgrammar]

Long shot I know, but wondering if anyone can compare v280/281 to RS 08 with HD650? I realize these amps are probably overkill for the Senns, but I'm looking for optimal performance. Reading opinions about V100 vs V200, it seems many (if not all) felt V100 is a better pairing with HD650 because of its more neutral tuning. I wonder if this carries over to the successors, as RS08 is based on V100 and V281 on V200, or if this is no longer a case with the new amps.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Long shot I know, but wondering if anyone can compare v280/281 to RS 08 with HD650? I realize these amps are probably overkill for the Senns, but I'm looking for optimal performance. Reading opinions about V100 vs V200, it seems many (if not all) felt V100 is a better pairing with HD650 because of its more neutral tuning. I wonder if this carries over to the successors, as RS08 is based on V100 and V281 on V200, or if this is no longer a case with the new amps.

I can partially reply, for what it's worth. I have a modded pair of HD650s, and have tried them at some length on 4 SS amps, including the V281; 2 of the amps are balanced & 2 are single-ended...and a couple are twice the power of the others.

I actually found relatively little difference in sound on these HPs, amp to amp. Despite one of the amp being described as "warm" (Liquid Carbon) and a couple others being considered "slightly warm" (V281 & G109-A)--I didn't hear any noteworthy differences on tonality, amp to amp. The dynamics & soundstaging might have been a bit better on the V281, which is epic in both category, but differences are still small. Overall, these modded HD650s sounded very good/very interesting on all my SS amps.

Now, when I put them on my only OTL/tube amp, the Woo WA3--that's when the real magic happened. Bass (which had a little mid-bass hump on SS) smoothed out perfectly; mids became richer & more nuanced; highs to die for; detail/resolution everywhere; best soundstaging of all the amps.

I concluded that impedance is the main factor in amping these HPs. Don't get me wrong--they sound really good on low impedance amps. But they sound even better on a high impedance amp.

 

[fdg]

Always wanted to ask about the balance control.
This is another potentiometer (RK27) with the different parameters. This potentiometer exists in the relay-based implementation too.
Is my understanding correct, and it is not in the signal path directly, but its impedance controls the corresponding op-amp which is responsible to make low impedance after the volume control?

Normally the balance control is a potentiometer between the left and right channel.
Most time it features a so called tap, a forth contact on the 50 % position.
As the potentiometer is between the channels it will harm the crosstalk.
This in mind we found another way to have a function similar to a balance control.
Also, we don´t wanted a "full" balance control ( left off <-> right off) but only a fraction to
compensate channel missmatches caused by bad recordings, headphones with imbalances, hearing issues.

So, in one channel there is a buffer amp after the volume control (remember: low impedance).
In the other channel there is the buffer amp together with the balance potentiometer which is able to control the signal gain by +/- 3 dB. In doing so also the phase was matched as there is the same amount of amps in the left and right channel.
The effect is similar to a "standard" balance control but without affecting the crosstalk.
As only one channel is altered, a RK27 potentiometer was not nesseccary from the quality.
The only reason for the RK27 balance control was to have the same feel whilst turning it.

 

[Justin_Time]

I can partially reply, for what it's worth. I have a modded pair of HD650s, and have tried them at some length on 4 SS amps, including the V281; 2 of the amps are balanced & 2 are single-ended...and a couple are twice the power of the others.

I actually found relatively little difference in sound on these HPs, amp to amp. Despite one of the amp being described as "warm" (Liquid Carbon) and a couple others being considered "slightly warm" (V281 & G109-A)--I didn't hear any noteworthy differences on tonality, amp to amp. The dynamics & soundstaging might have been a bit better on the V281, which is epic in both category, but differences are still small. Overall, these modded HD650s sounded very good/very interesting on all my SS amps.

Now, when I put them on my only OTL/tube amp, the Woo WA3--that's when the real magic happened. Bass (which had a little mid-bass hump on SS) smoothed out perfectly; mids became richer & more nuanced; highs to die for; detail/resolution everywhere; best soundstaging of all the amps.

I concluded that impedance is the main factor in amping these HPs. Don't get me wrong--they sound really good on low impedance amps. But they sound even better on a high impedance amp.

Thank you for sharing your finding.


I arrived at basically similar conclusions after trying several amps. Both the GS-X Mk2 and the V281 work great with the HD800S. The former is slightly sweeter at the top end and the latter slighter fuller in the upper bass. But, like in the case of the HD650, the HD800S started to really sing with my OTL amp, the Apex Teton. The high impedance of the OTL seems to be what creates the magic. I wish I had another OTL on hand to compare.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Thank you for sharing your finding.


I arrived at basically similar conclusions after trying several amps. Both the GS-X Mk2 and the V281 work great with the HD800S. The former is slightly sweeter at the top end and the latter slighter fuller in the upper bass. But, like in the case of the HD650, the HD800S started to really sing with my OTL amp, the Apex Teton. The high impedance of the OTL seems to be what creates the magic. I wish I had another OTL on hand to compare.

This post is interesting. I had no idea what the impedance of the HD800S is, so I looked it up: 300 ohms. And I found INNER FIDELITY measurements that said 374 ohms.

No wonder this headphone sounds good on an OTL amp! That's a pretty high impedance...

 

[depthgrammar]

Thanks for the insight! I'm aware the consensus is OTL tube for HD 650. I've listened extensively out of an old Fisher integrated tube amp and I like the tonality a lot, but i found that i lose much by way of control and detail as compared against my dedicated SS amp (Meier Corda Jazz ff). The Fisher wows you at first, but after extended listening, I prefer the Jazz. However I still find I miss a bit of the fullness/body that the tube amp (and the headphone outs on vintage SS receivers) provides, which I suspect also has to do with their higher output impedance, as you suggest. I guess I'm looking for the best of both worlds, which led me to Violectric/Lake People, as I see these amps described as full bodied and holographic, but with precision and detail. Even the comparatively narrow but well layered/separated soundstage appeals to me, as I'm not generally a fan of exaggerated soundstage. Perhaps a dedicated tube amp would improve upon the performance of the Fisher, but the only comparison I was able to find has the Fisher coming out on top against the Bottlehead Crack, which is the most common recommendation for HD650. So I thought I'd stick with SS. From your observations it sounds like I might not hear a world of difference going from RS08 to V281 - good to know. I might have a chance to listen to a Woo amp locally before deciding, but I'm still leaning towards Lake People.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Thanks for the insight! I'm aware the consensus is OTL tube for HD 650. I've listened extensively out of an old Fisher integrated tube amp and I like the tonality a lot, but i found that i lose much by way of control and detail as compared against my dedicated SS amp (Meier Corda Jazz ff). The Fisher wows you at first, but after extended listening, I prefer the Jazz. However I still find I miss a bit of the fullness/body that the tube amp (and the headphone outs on vintage SS receivers) provides, which I suspect also has to do with their higher output impedance, as you suggest. I guess I'm looking for the best of both worlds, which led me to Violectric/Lake People, as I see these amps described as full bodied and holographic, but with precision and detail. Even the comparatively narrow but well layered/separated soundstage appeals to me, as I'm not generally a fan of exaggerated soundstage. Perhaps a dedicated tube amp would improve upon the performance of the Fisher, but the only comparison I was able to find has the Fisher coming out on top against the Bottlehead Crack, which is the most common recommendation for HD650. So I thought I'd stick with SS. From your observations it sounds like I might not hear a world of difference going from RS08 to V281 - good to know. I might have a chance to listen to a Woo amp locally before deciding, but I'm still leaning towards Lake People.

I also have (and really love) a Lake People amp, the G109A. It's single-ended, slightly warm, as good an amp as you could hope for (listening to it right now). It managed to sound slightly warm, yet not colored (a neat trick).

 

[depthgrammar]

I also have (and really love) a Lake People amp, the G109A. It's single-ended, slightly warm, as good an amp as you could hope for (listening to it right now). It managed to sound slightly warm, yet not colored (a neat trick).

Good to know! So you didn't feel that balanced vs single ended ss made a huge difference with your modded HD650? A lot of people seem to swear by HD650 in balanced mode

 

[novicez1]

Both the GS-X Mk2 and the V281 work great with the HD800S. The former is slightly sweeter at the top end and the latter slighter fuller in the upper bass.

I've had the privilege to demo the GSX Mk2 yesterday with a handful of cans and I would say that as an HD800S owner, the GSX mk2 is something you want to steer away from. For HD600 and HD650, they sound amazing. V281 is still my go to amp for HD800S.

 

[DamageInc77]

I also have (and really love) a Lake People amp, the G109A. It's single-ended, slightly warm, as good an amp as you could hope for (listening to it right now). It managed to sound slightly warm, yet not colored (a neat trick).

Second. I had the G109P and I now have the RS02. Couldn't tell a difference between them regarding sound, but the RS02 is nice if you want active/passive passthrough or active preamp. Really great little amp.

 

[chungjun]

Not sure if this has been asked before...

If the V281 comes with "remote controlled with 128-step relay attenuator"... the remote is best option to adjust the volume rather than by hand-twisting the knob?

 

[townes]

Not sure if this has been asked before...

If the V281 comes with "remote controlled with 128-step relay attenuator"... the remote is best option to adjust the volume rather than by hand-twisting the knob?

The answer to your question is a clear "no". It's harder to adjust the volume to your liking via the remote control. Pushing the remote volume button a bit too long, results in a volume increase you might not really want.

 

[Fegefeuer]

some photos from the High End Show in Munich

Violectric Tower of Power

 

[dbq5anlxj]

hey guys I want to pull the trigger for one v281 to pair it with my hd800s. I just wonder should I add the dac module in or I better off buy a separate dac instead? I don't have any dedicate dac right now. I mainly use it with my pc (it's not ideal but that what I use most of the time) thanks in advance

 

[Fegefeuer]

What do you use in your PC? Onboard audio? Dedicated Sound Card? Which type?

You could get a Modi Multibit as an interim DAC (as I do, just buy one used) and save up for a bigger DAC or you can indeed use the DAC module until you go bigger.