weebull
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haha nice catch! (i hope)
Violectric HPA V281 - Vorsprung durch Balanced (September 2023 Update: Limited Reissue Edition up for preorder!)
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musicmaker
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I have a relay with remote V281.
Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.
Does the cracking noise during volume adjustments bother anyone else or is it just me ? Its super annoying. But the unit sounds terrific otherwise.
Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
I don't get a "cracking" noise, exactly...what I get are 2 other annoying symptoms:
- The volume will overshoot, even with a single discreet click on remote (getting muchy louder or softer than wanted--a bad thing w/headphones in particular). Other times, the volume seems not to change, despite me clicking the remote--then a 2nd click on the remote will suddenly boost or attenuate volume more than anticipated
- Even when I'm not using the remote & not touching the pot, it often makes "racking sounds" as if it's being adjusted upwards or downwards (sometimes for minutes on end).
But yes, it sounds great (always).
Fegefeuer
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It kinda shook me at first because I never heard something like that before, but you will get used to it until you totally forget about it.
musicmaker
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It not a clicking noise, almost like static when adjust the volume. Doesn't seem normal to me. Brand new unit.
stemiki
100+ Head-Fier
If you adjust the volume manually, without using the remote control, by moving the potentiometer slightly but quickly, the click almost disappears.
noplsestar
Headphoneus Supremus
But this shouldn’t happen at this pricepoint, should it? I hope they manage to get rid of such problems with the Niimbus.
stemiki
100+ Head-Fier
Volume control with relay has many advantages that have already been discussed in the past.
The only drawback is this light click during rotation.
The new Niinbus amp I seem to have read that uses red relay which
they should be less prone to noise.
The only drawback is this light click during rotation.
The new Niinbus amp I seem to have read that uses red relay which
they should be less prone to noise.
townes
100+ Head-Fier
Yes, you can describe it as static noise. As it's only during volume adjustment, it doesn't disturb me (much), but it would be nicer, without. Anyway: it's normal for the relay-based volume control in this amp.
musicmaker
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Its not a deal breaker but I expect an amp that costs as much as this (add $550 for the relay option) to be not popping and cracking during a volume adjustment. Apart from that annoyance, this is a terrific amp. It holds its own against the GS-X mark II which I own. Both are jaw dropping in their own way. The GS-X mII amazes me with its transparency, open airy sound and awesome dynamics. Switch over to the V281. A different perspective that's equally amazing with tasteful warmth & weight while still being dynamic and detailed. This is also an amp you can listen to for hours without fatigue. I cannot pick one over the other. The V281 is that good !
13713
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I have the same issue it is a nightmare. I kept questioning if I should send it back but after looking into it a little it is supposedly normal.
fdg
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These words had been posted by me earlier but it seems to be necessary to bump them from time to time ...
About different kinds of potentiometers (volume control)
Think of a simple potentiometer as an open resistor with its resistance increasing from one end to the other.
One end of the resistor is connected to the analog signal, the other end is connected to ground.
On the surface of this resistors there is a metalic whiper. By moving this whiper on the surface of the resistor different levels of
attenuation may be achieved from no attenuation (whiper on the end where the signal comes in) to maximum attenuation (whiper on the end where ground is connected).
The increasing resistance of the potentiometer may follow different laws.
A linear law is preferred for balance or tone control.
A positive logarithm law is good for volume control while a negative logarithm law is best for microphone preamps.
The above resistor may appear in different shapes.
Most time it is curved with an angele about 300 degrees from on end to the other.
On mixing consoles you will find straight potentiometers.
You can pack several channels (resistors) in an enclosure or pack several enclosures with a single resistor inside together and control them with one or more shafts.
But there are several disadvantages to consider when you like to use more than one potentiometer at a time - for stereo you need at least two.
There is ALWAYS a mismatch between two or more potentiometers as these can´t be manufactured 100% exact.
This mismatch can be heard as a channel imbalance, meaning the center may move a bit to the left or the right whilst turning the potentiometer.
Also the crosstalk may suffer during attenuation. Therefore better potentiometers have a dedicated chamber for each resistor.
Some potentiometers offer one or more detents to ease operation.
These detents have NOTHING to do with a stepped attenuator !!!
A common feature is a center detent for balance control to exactly determine the middle position.
Other popular detents are 13-detent for tone control,
31- or 41-detent for volume control to ease the repositioning to a specific value / angle.
To come across the accuracy- and crosstalk-issue several manufacturers offer real stepped attenuators.
These are realized with 12-step or 24-step turn-switches.
The limitation to max. 24 steps is due to the fact that there are no affordable turn-switches with more than 24 steps in this world.
Just imagine that the above mentioned resistor is devided in small portions of high accuracy with 1% or even 0.1 %.
Instead the whiper of a standard potentiometer, the 12-step or 24-step turn-switch acts to come from one resistor to the other.
Also you may position the switches for left and right far from each other to enhance crosstalk.
The disadvantage of this idea is that 24 steps often are not enough to meet your specific needs.
The next idea is the electronical attenuation.
There are some older approaches like the VCA (voltage controlled attenuator) which work quite fine as an attenuator but have high amounts of distortion.
The better approach is the DCA (digital controlled attenuator), offering 128 or 256 steps of very exact attenuation with good crosstalk.
But unfortunately there is still some negative influence on the signal …
The final solution is the relay controlled attenuation.
It is as exact as the 24-step turn-switch solution (but with more steps) because of the use of accurate resistors.
There is no noisy or distorting active electronic in the signal chain. There is best crosstalk.
Instead of the contacts of a turn-switch, here relays are in charge to switch between the resistors and perform the attenuation of the signal.
We at Violectric voted for a 128-step solution with 0.75 dB per step for a 96 dB attenuation.
To control electronic or relay based attenuators, normally up-down-buttons or incrementals (turn switches without a beginning or an end) are used because this is a cheap solution.
We voted for a real potentiometer with a beginning and an end so people can check by a simple look at the knob the amount of attenuation.
To do so, we again use a motor driven potentiometer (which would not be nesseccary at this point) to have the same look and feel compared to our other gear.
Instead the analog signal attenuation a control voltage is created by this potentiometer which is fed to an A/D converter to form a digital signal which sets the relays.
There is much light shining on the relay volume control but there is also some shadows:
You will hear the relays working whilst turning the knob, this is some clicking when turning slow or even sounds like some soft noise coming out of the box when turning fast.
The other disadvantage is the power consumption ….
About different kinds of potentiometers (volume control)
Think of a simple potentiometer as an open resistor with its resistance increasing from one end to the other.
One end of the resistor is connected to the analog signal, the other end is connected to ground.
On the surface of this resistors there is a metalic whiper. By moving this whiper on the surface of the resistor different levels of
attenuation may be achieved from no attenuation (whiper on the end where the signal comes in) to maximum attenuation (whiper on the end where ground is connected).
The increasing resistance of the potentiometer may follow different laws.
A linear law is preferred for balance or tone control.
A positive logarithm law is good for volume control while a negative logarithm law is best for microphone preamps.
The above resistor may appear in different shapes.
Most time it is curved with an angele about 300 degrees from on end to the other.
On mixing consoles you will find straight potentiometers.
You can pack several channels (resistors) in an enclosure or pack several enclosures with a single resistor inside together and control them with one or more shafts.
But there are several disadvantages to consider when you like to use more than one potentiometer at a time - for stereo you need at least two.
There is ALWAYS a mismatch between two or more potentiometers as these can´t be manufactured 100% exact.
This mismatch can be heard as a channel imbalance, meaning the center may move a bit to the left or the right whilst turning the potentiometer.
Also the crosstalk may suffer during attenuation. Therefore better potentiometers have a dedicated chamber for each resistor.
Some potentiometers offer one or more detents to ease operation.
These detents have NOTHING to do with a stepped attenuator !!!
A common feature is a center detent for balance control to exactly determine the middle position.
Other popular detents are 13-detent for tone control,
31- or 41-detent for volume control to ease the repositioning to a specific value / angle.
To come across the accuracy- and crosstalk-issue several manufacturers offer real stepped attenuators.
These are realized with 12-step or 24-step turn-switches.
The limitation to max. 24 steps is due to the fact that there are no affordable turn-switches with more than 24 steps in this world.
Just imagine that the above mentioned resistor is devided in small portions of high accuracy with 1% or even 0.1 %.
Instead the whiper of a standard potentiometer, the 12-step or 24-step turn-switch acts to come from one resistor to the other.
Also you may position the switches for left and right far from each other to enhance crosstalk.
The disadvantage of this idea is that 24 steps often are not enough to meet your specific needs.
The next idea is the electronical attenuation.
There are some older approaches like the VCA (voltage controlled attenuator) which work quite fine as an attenuator but have high amounts of distortion.
The better approach is the DCA (digital controlled attenuator), offering 128 or 256 steps of very exact attenuation with good crosstalk.
But unfortunately there is still some negative influence on the signal …
The final solution is the relay controlled attenuation.
It is as exact as the 24-step turn-switch solution (but with more steps) because of the use of accurate resistors.
There is no noisy or distorting active electronic in the signal chain. There is best crosstalk.
Instead of the contacts of a turn-switch, here relays are in charge to switch between the resistors and perform the attenuation of the signal.
We at Violectric voted for a 128-step solution with 0.75 dB per step for a 96 dB attenuation.
To control electronic or relay based attenuators, normally up-down-buttons or incrementals (turn switches without a beginning or an end) are used because this is a cheap solution.
We voted for a real potentiometer with a beginning and an end so people can check by a simple look at the knob the amount of attenuation.
To do so, we again use a motor driven potentiometer (which would not be nesseccary at this point) to have the same look and feel compared to our other gear.
Instead the analog signal attenuation a control voltage is created by this potentiometer which is fed to an A/D converter to form a digital signal which sets the relays.
There is much light shining on the relay volume control but there is also some shadows:
You will hear the relays working whilst turning the knob, this is some clicking when turning slow or even sounds like some soft noise coming out of the box when turning fast.
The other disadvantage is the power consumption ….
13713
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The clicking has always been there. But there is some crackling "lack of a better descriptive word" when I adjust it as well. Still it is a brilliant amp and I would not change it for the world.
Also thank you for the in depth explanation.
Also thank you for the in depth explanation.
musicmaker
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Exactly, clicking I can live with. But this is like a static cracking/popping noise. I'm sure there are technical reasons. I get very precise channel matching etc, but doesn't change the fact that from a user experience point of view, its very annoying and takes away from the overall enjoyment.
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