[sanjeewasam]

In my experience - a smallish difference that may indeed be quantified as 5-10% in specific terms, can nonetheless be a real game changer when it comes to the total experience. If I now enjoy solo violin or piano (or whatever music) and it keeps me engaged, or inspires me to listen in ways I otherwise would not/could not, doesn't that sound like the game has been changed? 


 


Imagine going from an old video card with choppy/unpredictable frame rate in games, to a slightly faster card that allows a fairly consistent 30 fps. Maybe not a huge difference on paper but if 30 fps is your personal threshold for enjoyment and the upgrade puts you over the edge, that's significant. Not a perfect analogy but you get the point.


 


Now imagine upgrading from a card that averages 40 fps to another that gets you around 48 fps. That may not feel like much of an improvement at all - you already passed the significant 30 fps mark but aren't yet hitting the magic 60 fps, so it might feel like a waste. 


 


My point is that differences can be small yet transformative if they unlock some previously unattainable enjoyment. It's not always "veils lifted". And the improvement that really impacts your enjoyment might do very little for someone else.


 


Just food for thought. 

 


I do agree. My request was to explain what is meant by "Night and Day: difference. I am not saying 5% difference does not make difference when we try to get last bit of the hear and recording. Again that is subjective- for Recording/Mastering engineer it would be more relevant to a hobbyst who would listen casually.

But when words like "Night and Day" used for every thing including describe power cables, conditioners, USB cables, headphone cables, DACs and AMPs and streamers we become jokers and lot of people burn money with great expectation to find out either headfi guys are sponsored by manufactures or people with no objectivity. That is why most of the head-fi guys have become laughing matter in other places (I read many sources). When we see comments like this we need to challenge to re-examine and to re-word as required. At least that is my 2C.

 

[sanjeewasam]

I need some help with safe listening levels. Someone with knowledge on Vio gear can help I belive

I was commenting on Elear forum. I did not like Elear and was to sell it but then accidentally discovered that at high volumes Elear does become much much better and open up Mids and Highs to my liking. I posted volume levels direct out of Mojo and V850 ->V281-> SE Elear. I have V850 $24db <12 clock and V281 around 11-12. Most of the people have not experienced Vio gear but for the volume I mentioned for Mojo lead to controversy and lot of comments posted saying that volume too high and will damage hearing.

Some experienced people have suggested EQ 5K band and advise not to listen to at above double green level in Mojo. The following guideline was posted by one person. http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

Now my question is in Vio forums it is suggested that at Factory gain settings use 12 clock vol in V850 and V281. What Db is that say for 80Ohms Elear or 300Ohms HD800. Of course I need much less volume for HD800.

What would it be if I have V850 @24DB setting at say 12Clock and V281 at 11 Clock?. I use Aries Mini to stream at default setting assuming my recording is at normal level

 

[FumblingFoo]

But when words like "Night and Day" used for every thing including describe power cables, conditioners, USB cables, headphone cables, DACs and AMPs and streamers we become jokers and lot of people burn money with great expectation to find out either headfi guys are sponsored by manufactures or people with no objectivity. That is why most of the head-fi guys have become laughing matter in other places (I read many sources). When we see comments like this we need to challenge to re-examine and to re-word as required. At least that is my 2C.

 
I didn't think anybody would take me too seriously because it was just a quick couple of words about how I was able to hear a difference for the first time. That's definitely a culture that I would not like to be a part of; I had no idea such was the case. So advice definitely taken .

 

[FumblingFoo]

I need some help with safe listening levels. Someone with knowledge on Vio gear can help I belive

 
For that I recommend a sound pressure meter. They can be gotten on the cheap at amazon. An excellent one is the American Recorder Technologies SPL meter, which I have, but is only available as used on amazon.
 
https://www.amazon.com/American-Recorder-Technologies-Sound-Pressure/dp/B000I4ZVHU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1487377378&sr=8-4&keywords=sound+pressure+meter
 
 
They can be bought new at the guitar center
 
http://www.guitarcenter.com/American-Recorder-Technologies/Sound-Level-Meter-1273887987091.gc
 
 
Edit: After a few trail runs with getting the SPL meter to 85dba and then listening, you'll get a good idea of safe listening volume where you won't have to be whipping out the meter all the time to check.

 

[buzzlulu]

What about iPhone iOS sound meter apps?  I have seen a few people on this forum recommend them

 

[FumblingFoo]

I wonder, is it safe to run +24db from the v850 into the v281? Will I need to reduce the vol from max on the v850 for more headroom? Is it entirely unnecessary to do so (meaning the v281 already maxes out in power @ +15db from the v850).

 

[Yoga]

  What about iPhone iOS sound meter apps?  I have seen a few people on this forum recommend them

They're actually quite good. Make sure you get one with C-weighting.

 

[FumblingFoo]

  They're actually quite good. Make sure you get one with C-weighting.

 
So is C-weighting better than A-weighting for determining safe listening levels?

 

[buzzlulu]

They're actually quite good. Make sure you get one with C-weighting.

Any particular iOS app you know of? I am looking at this - SPLnFFT Noise Meter - which I seem to recall seeing somewhere on this forum.

I'm looking for something uncomplicated

 

[Yoga]

   
So is C-weighting better than A-weighting for determining safe listening levels?

 
Yes, it's the recommended method. Set to Slow (better for averages) and use pink noise to determine the SPL. Don't use music.
 

Any particular iOS app you know of? I am looking at this - SPLnFFT Noise Meter - which I seem to recall seeing somewhere on this forum.

I'm looking for something uncomplicated

 
Yes, dB Volume seems to get very close to my actual SPL meter, so much in fact I never bother to use it :¬)

 

[buzzlulu]

Yes, it's the recommended method. Set to Slow (better for averages) and use pink noise to determine the SPL. Don't use music.


Yes, dB Volume seems to get very close to my actual SPL meter, so much in fact I never bother to use it :¬)

Thanks. I will check that app out

 

[Yoga]

Most welcome :¬)

 

[zhgutov]

I need some help with safe listening levels. Someone with knowledge on Vio gear can help I belive

I was commenting on Elear forum. I did not like Elear and was to sell it but then accidentally discovered that at high volumes Elear does become much much better and open up Mids and Highs to my liking. I posted volume levels direct out of Mojo and V850 ->V281-> SE Elear. I have V850 $24db <12 clock and V281 around 11-12. Most of the people have not experienced Vio gear but for the volume I mentioned for Mojo lead to controversy and lot of comments posted saying that volume too high and will damage hearing.

Some experienced people have suggested EQ 5K band and advise not to listen to at above double green level in Mojo. The following guideline was posted by one person. http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

Now my question is in Vio forums it is suggested that at Factory gain settings use 12 clock vol in V850 and V281. What Db is that say for 80Ohms Elear or 300Ohms HD800. Of course I need much less volume for HD800.

What would it be if I have V850 @24DB setting at say 12Clock and V281 at 11 Clock?. I use Aries Mini to stream at default setting assuming my recording is at normal level

 
Why do you use 24 dBu outputs in V850 reducing the volume in digital signal back by ~10 dB?
Isn't it better to go to the factory defaults (15 dBu) and set the volume level close to the maximum?
I think, your choice just lead to the reduced dynamic range.
 
For V281 the recommended position of the volume control is 12 o'clock for the normal listening levels.
 
SPL will change with the different pre-gain settings, and the type of the volume control in your case.
Let's assume you use -12 dB pre-gain with basic (not relay-based) volume control.
You use 24 dBu settings @ 12 o'clock on V850, and 12 o'clock on V281.
And you use SE outputs for Elear and HD800 on V281.
In this case SPL will be ~100 dB @ 0 dB FS @ 1 kHz.
It will be slightly less for the musical signal, maybe ~90 dB for "loud" tracks.
SPL for HD800 will be lower by 5-7 dB.
SPL for the balanced connection will be higher by 6 dB.
 
There are good recommendations for adjusting levels at the first page of this thread.
 

  I wonder, is it safe to run +24db from the v850 into the v281? Will I need to reduce the vol from max on the v850 for more headroom? Is it entirely unnecessary to do so (meaning the v281 already maxes out in power @ +15db from the v850).

 
I think, it is safe to run @24 dBu. The only exception is the last three steps of the volume control on the V281. At this level the clipping occurs for the signal @ 0 dB FS.
This happens with the phones output only, not with the line output. I think, this is input limitation of the stage after the volume control.
Nothing bad with that if you don't need these last three steps. It is strange if you need them.

 

[FumblingFoo]

v281 measurements @ http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281.php
 
I had fun playing with the graphs, especially seeing the "Spectrum of Total Harmonic Distortion vs Level the headphone amplifier" measurements improve by 30db when increasing power, and noise improving by 20db when doing the same.

 

[ArthurPower]

It looks like the measurements were done using the unbalanced headphone output.