[bigdirty]

At the moment my vinyl rig consists of:

borrowed sl1200mk2
stock tonearm
Shure M44-7 cart

Cambridge Audio 640p phono stage

LittleDot MKIII headphone amp

Sennheiser HD 595

the turntable is going back to its owner next week. So being in the market for a turntable Im looking for some advice. With a 1000-1200 dollar budget what are my options for TT and tonearm?

Reading about the sl1200 upgrading it with a rega 301 tonearm sounds like a viable option. what are some other TT's in this price range? would bumping my budget up to a 1500 dollar TT/tonearm out perform an upgraded sl1200?

thanks for any help in advance

big

 

[VIrak]

With your budget, I'd get a fully upgraded SL-1200Mk2 from KAB GREAT SOUND CATALOG http://www.kabusa.com (sans the 78 mod). The stock tonearm is better spec'ed than the RB301, and fluid damping takes to the next level.
If you liked the SL-1200Mk2 with a M44-7, you're gonna love it with a hifi cartridge.

My current "main table" is an SL-1210Mk2 with the KAB TD-1200 fluid damper, Isonoe feet, Technics "supermat", and an Audio-Technica AT-OC9ML/II cartridge. I'm really looking forward to the results of a Cardas rewire and outboard power supply.

For referances, the rest of the system is: Accuphase E-302 > Stax SRD-7SBmk2 > Stax Lambda Signature / Lambda Pro > KEF Q65's

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdirty Reading about the sl1200 upgrading it with a rega 301 tonearm sounds like a viable option. what are some other TT's in this price range? would bumping my budget up to a 1500 dollar TT/tonearm out perform an upgraded sl1200?

For about 700USD or less, if you buy the basic RB250 tonearm and mounting plate straight from Origin Live in England, and get an SL1200MK2 locally, the Technics is pretty hard to beat.

You can then afford a really nice quality of moving coil cart like the Dynavector DV10 or even DV20XL which work very well indeed on a Rega arm. Coupled with your other existing kit this will given you a vinyl front end which will compete with all but the very very best.

For similar money you could get a VPI Scout which is a firm favourite around here, or a Clearaudio or a Michell.

These level of belt drives will leave the Technics in the dust without the tonearm upgrade, but with a Rega arm on the Technics it will be more down to different aspects of the sound which a direct drive can do better than a belt drive and vice versa.

The Technics is rock solid in timing and gives a real sense of power to a performance, whereas modern belt drives at this level will generally have a more capacious soundstage, be slightly quieter or, if they have a supsended subchassis, they'll give you a rhythmic snappiness which can make the Technics sound a little mechnical by comparison.

These are fairly nebulous differences though which will be more apparent with different types of music when listening to the decks side by side. If I were you and spending this much money I'd find a local dealer and see if you can listen to some decks in a proper demo to see what's on offer.



Quote:

Originally Posted by VIrak /img/forum/go_quote.gif The stock tonearm is better spec'ed than the RB301, and fluid damping takes to the next level.

Not unless you value the ability to change carts conveniently over sound quality. There have been many threads about this. Here is a recent one.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/tec...pgrade-420699/

As for using a fluid damper with a low compliance moving coil cart, this is not what it's really designed for and not going to be much help, being much more in keeping with high compliance carts like the Ortofon concord or Stanton 881.

KABUSA are experts on Technics decks for sure but you have to remember that they have become experts by serving a DJ market for the last 30 years and some of the things this market values are not strictly speaking necessary or best practice purely for playing records at home.

I'm sure your system sounds great and lots of the upgrades you've made, like the mat and footers are superb, but if you really want to take your deck to next level, loose the antique tonearm.

You can get a lot of decent modern beltdrives for the money you're spending, and something like a Michel Gyro SE will wipe the floor with a stock Technics. A large part of the difference is the Rega tonearm though, so fitting this to a Technics SL1200 will even the ground.

 

[mark_h]

1200 and an Origin Live Silver arm Denon 103, what a combination that would be!! Falls within your budget.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I'd look for a used VPI, Michell Gyrodec (bargains do come up), Oracle, or a Linn LP12. With an emphasis on used. Audiogon has many excellent used decks and you'll save a huge amount of money there.

As for the SL1200... it's not bad. My cousin spins one and I've listened to it. Still, I much preferred my Gyrodec, which I picked up used for $1,300. I've since upgraded it to a full Orbe, which I like even more. I've also heard very good VPI, Oracle and Linn systems, so I'd consider those, too.

 

[bigdirty]

thanks for the response guys.

I think Im still leaning towards the upgraded sl-1200. it seems like a more robust unit. Are these other tables you guys talk of (vpi,oracle,Linn) as easy to upgrade? I like the idea of the TT growing with me as my dedication to the hobby increases.

SL-1200
rega 301 tonearm
denon 110/160 cart

this seems like a decent start into the vinyl world?

What other "upgrades" should I consider? internal/external rewiring? external power supply was mentioned. what kind of benefits does this provide?

Thanks

big

 

[oeyhamre]

If you want an alternative to the Origin Live/Rega upgrade, look here: Technics SL1200 SL1210 -* SL-1210 SL1200* modifications
When funds allow I`m going for the Jelco SA-750 arm and the PSU upgrade.

 

[VIrak]

Regarding the arm:

The stock Technics arm has very good bearings (7mg friction, e.g. the Jelco 750D has 20mg).

Rega does not publish bearing specs (or rumble, wow and flutter...), but I have done the «swing test» Linn recommends for checking the bearings in their tonearms, and the stock SL-1200Mk2 arm has about 6 times less friction than the RB300 and OL RB250 I tested...!

The rigidity of the RB-series might be better, but that has to be weighed against the ease of swapping headshells and the superb VTA adjustment. Personally, I love to play around with cartridges, so headshells are a plus in my book.

I've heard the RB300 and my own RB250 (Origin Live-modded, w/ silver wire, OL counterweight, etc) on other turntables, and I wasn't so impressed that I rushed out and bought a Rega armboard. I guess I'll have to do it someday, though.

I've had an SME 3009/S2 and a Mayware F4 MkIII mounted on the Technics, and since they're very different designs (knife bearing and unipivot), they do give a different presentation. Is different better? Depends on the cartridge/arm synergy, doesn't it? E.g. the Mayware with an Ortofon OM40 was stunning, but the Technics arm is way too heavy for that particular cartridge.

Anyway, my point is, if you buy an SL-1200Mk2, make the most out of it before you start messing around with arms.
It might be a sideways move, or worse.

 

[VIrak]

For the tweakers: A cheaper way to dampen the stock tonearm is shrink tubing or plumbers tape. Not so pleasing to the eye, but cheap

I also guess Locktite could be used on the headshell...

 

[mark_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdirty /img/forum/go_quote.gif thanks for the response guys. I think Im still leaning towards the upgraded sl-1200. it seems like a more robust unit. Are these other tables you guys talk of (vpi,oracle,Linn) as easy to upgrade? I like the idea of the TT growing with me as my dedication to the hobby increases. big

Linn LP12 or VPI are very upgradable with the LP12 upgrades ranging from £20 to £20,000

 

[NightOwl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif Linn LP12 or VPI are very upgradable with the LP12 upgrades ranging from £20 to £20,000

Oracle too. Parts for the Alexandria and Paris are harder to find, but a Delphi can be brought up to latest specs straight from the manufacturer. Regas can also be upgraded (platter, arm mods, origin live motor). Most "audiophile" turntables have upgrades and tweaks of some kind available and all will take upgraded tonearms.
These turntables are also very robust. The advantage the Technics has here is the very strong direct drive motor and the fact that you don't have a suspension to set up or worry about drifting out of tune. You do have to be careful to isolate it from low level resonances that a suspended deck will absorb.

Personally I prefer other turntables to the Technics. It's good value stock. If I were looking to spend more or upgrade in the future, I would look elsewhere. If you wanted to buy new, then I would second memepool's recommendation for a VPI Scout or Michell (I haven't heard the Clearaudio).
If you were willing to purchase used, then a whole other world opens up.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdirty /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are these other tables you guys talk of (vpi,oracle,Linn) as easy to upgrade? I like the idea of the TT growing with me as my dedication to the hobby increases.

Yes, I was able to take a Gyrodec all the way to a full Orbe. You can upgrade bit-by-bit, which I did, and I've been extremely pleased with the end result.

You also need to consider the total cost of upgrades to a turntable. I started with a Rega Planar 3 and was about to go whole hog on all the upgrades and tweaks. However, I sat down, added up the costs, and realized that I could get the Gyrodec I really wanted for about the same price. So I went for the Gyrodec instead. No regrets, and I'm happier with the suspended deck, too. Also, they look slightly better than a Rega, too:

I can't recommend sticking with your first table. Turntables are like a psychological test - you won't know what you really want until you have one and use it for awhile. I strongly recommend getting about any decent starter deck and using it for awhile. Keep track of what you like, what you don't, and what features you wish you had. In the meantime, read, read, read, read, and read some more on what's out there. After six months to a year, you'll begin to understand what you're really looking for. When you understand, that will be the time to sink some cash into the deck that you really want.

The SL1200 is a good place to start, but do not assume that's where you're going to end up. I'd recommend buying a mostly stock one to see how you get along with it.

 

[lini]

bigdirty: If you'd ask me, I suggest to forget about expensive SL12x0 modifications (at least for now). Just get a plain, stock one, slap on a nice, suitable cartridge (e.g. a Nagaoka MP-20, Denon DL-160...) and enjoy - and buy records and useful extras (good quality inner sleeves, good carbon fibre brush, manual record cleaning kit et cetera) for the rest.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[ssportclay]

Start out with either a stock Technics 1200 MK2 or get one from KABUSA with the power supply installed for you and start playing records. You can change tonearms yourself down the road anytime you want and its ridiculously easy.

 

[BobMcN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Start out with either a stock Technics 1200 MK2 or get one from KABUSA with the power supply installed for you and start playing records. You can change tonearms yourself down the road anytime you want and its ridiculously easy.

Dangerously misleading information here. Yes, tonearms can be easily changed if the pivot to spindle distance on each is the same. But if not then you could be talking about drilling/expanding a new hole. Tonearm setup is not trivial, nor is correct cartridge alignment, and needs to be done right to get the most out of your upgrade, otherwise you'll be wasting your money and could end up with worse sound.

Bob