Vinyl playback of demanding material-achilles heel?

[eyeteeth]

I am familiar with the many various debates of the pros and cons of vinyl playback vs redbook. The things each are better or worse at than the other.

I'd like to know some opinions of the vinyl playback of what I imagine is demanding material. Orchestras at full climax, 'Wall of Sound' Rock and Roll, etc. I realize expensive decks will fare better. What about turntable/arm/cartidge packages in the $1200 USD range?
Thanks

 

[kartik]

Well, I can't really speak for other TTs but, at the mini-meet at my place this past weekend, we did audition some recordings that are awesomely bad on redbook and they sounded tolerable on LP. The piece in question is the Metallica S&M recording which has been characterized by overpowering cymbals and crowd noise. I think Lan had the most appropriate assessment and defer to his post for that. IMHO, the vinyl sounded more live and relaxed than the same track on redbook. I'm using the scout-Grado combination which is more than $1200 so I don't know how you might extrapolate that.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartik I think Lan had the most appropriate assessment and defer to his post for that.

I'd be happy to read that if I could find it. Where's it hiding?

 

[kartik]

It is kinda on the meet thread. But he really needs to post his impressions on this specific issue.

 

[lan]

Well when you mention "full climax" of orchestra or "wall of sound" rock and roll, I think of a few important considerations (at least to me).

I think turntables have the potential of not being as dynamic on the macro scale. It'll of course depend on the components. But digital reproductions usually have faults in the micro. I believe the "soul" is in the small stuff. The clarity, harmonics, and soundstage are easier to come by on vinyl. I'm a believer in powercords and power conditioning and these things seem to remedy digital reproduction a bit.

Then there's the mastering of the disc. I think you have to be more careful with the vinyl pressing to utilize it's characteristics. There's a lot of bad rock CDs.

 

[eyeteeth]

Thanks lan, that is a pretty satisfying answer.

I will probably pick up an entry deck today or tomorrow (if in stock), just to dip my toe into analog.

 

[kartik]

[size=xx-large]NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO![/size]
Don't do that! If you must try vinyl don't try an entry level unit. That's just like saying "I want to try digital, so I'm buying a portable CD player". Try going to any decent audio shop in the city and auditioning some decent vinyl, so that you at least get a good flavor of what to listen for.

 

[kartik]

Having said that, I must add that my Scout is kinda entry level, but a well respected entry level player. Like the Ray Samuels HR-2 of analogue. For pretty close to $1200 you should be able to get Gopher's Scout with the Grado Platinum Cartridge. Better still you could get the Bluenote Piccolo + Tonearm + Cartridge (New) from Todd at TTVJ. Either way you'll have a winner.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartik [size=medium]NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO![/size]

LOL
I know you're reasoning and having read all the analog threads for quite awhile, I know any indication of purchasing low will be met by opposition and pleas to buy higher.

By "entry level" I mean a step up from bottom of a Rega, Music Hall or Pro-Ject. My intention, other than listening, is to live with the work involved with vinyl. If after 6 months I'm still happy, I'll move into a better table/cartridge/phonostage.

I'm not willing to spend 2K on something I'm not sure I'll like.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth LOL I'm not willing to spend 2K on something I'm not sure I'll like.

True. But at least you'll be able to upgrade the arm, cartridge, or phono preamp easily since it's a modular system.

 

[kartik]

You don't need to spend 2K at all. Some of the cheaper TTs would still sound good enough. The HW-19Jr. only costs $1250 with the RB300. How 'bout that! Then ther's a 10% off on that. Meaning it only costs $1125. In contrast if you go for the Bluenote Picolo special, it's only $975. The HW-19Jr. is upgradable all the way till Tuberoller's mighty Mk IV spec so it fits right with your plans.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan True. But at least you'll be able to upgrade the arm, cartridge, or phono preamp easily since it's a modular system.

These were also my considerations. Surely budget analog will not aggravate me with the hardness my digital playback system is giving me. If there is aggravation it will be of another kind. At least I'll know and not have to keep asking others at Head-Fi "what will a modest vinyl source sound like?"

I'm starting to sound like a broken record!

 

[kartik]

The MMF and Planars are OK. DO NOT BUY THE PRO-JECT. There are several reviews out there that definitively believe that these are a load of East European Crap. This is stuff even the Czechs don't want.

 

[kartik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan I'm a believer in powercords and power conditioning and these things seem to remedy digital reproduction a bit.

I think these affect analog sources even more than they do digital. I'm honestly thinking of getting the Power supply upgrade for my scout as my next major tweak. Maybe even some power cords for that.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartik The MMF and Planars are OK. DO NOT BUY THE PRO-JECT. There are several reviews out there that definitively believe that these are a load of East European Crap. This is stuff even the Czechs don't want.

Maybe. The MMF and Planars seem to get more US reviews. The Pro-Jects get more UK reviews which I've read in magazines not available on-line at the moment. HIFI+, HIFI-Choice, etc. The field seems fairly level at the low prices and the carbon fibre arm on the Pro-Ject Xpression is getting a lot of press, the equal of a Rega RB300. The cartidge-Ortofon OM10, is described as the "limiting factor" of the Xpression.