[MarkO]

I have a Dual CS721 turntable that I have had for, oh, twenty years. The table is not with me at the moment; my brother borrowed it and installed one of his cartridges on it, but not a particularly good one.

I am considering getting either (a) a new cartridge for the Dual or (b) a new table, around the level of the MMF-5.

I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have on what I should do. Have turntables come so far that my Dual even with a great cartridge would be trounced even by an inexpensive table? Or is the Dual a good enough platform that, with a good cartridge, I could get a good chunk of what the modestly priced modern tables would give me?

If anyone has particular thoughts on cartridges good for the Dual, that would be good, too.

Finally, if anyone in Chicago can recommend a place where I could take the Dual to buy a cartridge and get it set up (if that's the route to take), I would appreciate that, too.

Heading to the basement to haul of those boxes of albums . . .

MarkO

 

[lini]

This one: http://www.compassnet.com/concept/tables/721.htm? I wouldn't think it can match a MMF-5, but I'd assume it to be about as good as the MMF-2.1 or the ProJect Debut/1.2.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[MarkO]

Yep. The "early model."

 

[Tuberoller]

Are you in Chicago?

I have a bunch of "vintage" tables and unfortunately they all sound vintage,no matter what kind of cartridges you mount or mods you make.I would go with the MMF-5 which is an excellent table and the best deal going in analog right now.I can get you in touch with agreat dealer who will cut you a smokin' deal on the Musichall tables or a bunch of other used tables you can choose from.

 

[kentamcolin]

Musichall table should be a big improvement over the Dual. If you have a good vintage table and are happy with the sound, stick with it. But IMO it doesn't make sense to pour more money into it when there are excellent new tables in every price range. If your near Chicago or can get to Chicago you would be wise to take Tuberoller up on his offer!

Vinyl rules.

 

[zowie]

That Dual is not a particularly good platform. Don't pump money into it. Enjoy it with a sub-$100 Grado, and it may benefit from a mat upgrade and a tonearm wrap.

MMF is the better choice for sure. (Or Pro-ject, or used Rega/Nad/Revolver, etc.).

 

[millerdog]

Zowie hit it!
I put a Grado Red on my Dual 1246 and it sounds great, but I have my sights on a MMF5.

 

[MarkO]

It's interesting how two groups can each have consistent, but diametrically opposed, views. I appreciate everyone's input here. If you go over to the vinyl asylum at AudioAsylum, where I posted the same question, you will see that just about everyone there said to hang on to the Dual, not to sell it under any circumstances, and to invest in a new cartridge rather than a new table.

Interesting.

 

[zowie]

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkO It's interesting how two groups can each have consistent, but diametrically opposed, views. I appreciate everyone's input here. If you go over to the vinyl asylum at AudioAsylum, where I posted the same question, you will see that just about everyone there said to hang on to the Dual, not to sell it under any circumstances, and to invest in a new cartridge rather than a new table. Interesting.

I have great affection for Dual. A 1229 was my regular deck from 1973 to 1981 and I still have it and once in a while play it. I've also heard the 1219, 1228, and one of the CS models from the late 80s. I'll admit I haven't heard a DD Dual, but my experience with '70s DD tables is for the most part not good.

Duals can be very enjoyable, and if someone told me they needed to find a turntable for $50, wanted a changer, or wanted 78RPM on a budget, that's where I'd point them. But if someone said they could spend $300-$500, it falls short by a wide margin. Any decent belt drive deck with a Rega arm will blow it out of the water. Duals sound musical, but the noise floor is too high and the detail retrieval too low.

I don't trust the asylum opinion if it comes with something like "Not to sell it under any circumstances" simply because there are tons of used Duals on the market and you can always get another.

Do you have a friend with a good turntable? Take it over to his house and compare, and make up your own mind. That's the best way.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally posted by zowie I have great affection for Dual. A 1229 was my regular deck from 1973 to 1981 and I still have it and once in a while play it. I've also heard the 1219, 1228, and one of the CS models from the late 80s. I'll admit I haven't heard a DD Dual, but my experience with '70s DD tables is for the most part not good. Duals can be very enjoyable, and if someone told me they needed to find a turntable for $50, wanted a changer, or wanted 78RPM on a budget, that's where I'd point them. But if someone said they could spend $300-$500, it falls short by a wide margin. Any decent belt drive deck with a Rega arm will blow it out of the water. Duals sound musical, but the noise floor is too high and the detail retrieval too low. I don't trust the asylum opinion if it comes with something like "Not to sell it under any circumstances" simply because there are tons of used Duals on the market and you can always get another. Do you have a friend with a good turntable? Take it over to his house and compare, and make up your own mind. That's the best way.

Well said.

Even the higher-end vintage tables are really not up to modern standards of low noise and higher resolution.Modern tables are much better at detail retrieval and resolution due to much more silent backrounds and better motor isolation.those who cling to vintage tables are attached to the "vintage sound" which is the sound that drove most people to digital in the first place.

 

[hempcamp]

I have to agree, the MMF-5 is a wonderful turntable. It'll be in my own upgrade path very soon (right now I have an old Sony that's on its last legs).

--Chris

 

[Videoshielded]

I have the MMF-5 with the stock cartridge. I'm a discerning listener with a lot of experience distinguishing the relative merits of CD players, but I don't have much TT experience. That being said, I've no complaints! Very quiet table. It's readily adjustible, including the tonearm height, so you can dial in tonal balance to your taste (within reason, of course). One tip: you can make finer adjustments to the three-position anti-skate control by screwing or unscrewing the post to which the skate weight string attaches.

I wish it had adjustible feet, but it's easy to level with shims. It's the only source I've owned that I like as much as my Ah! 4000.

My phono stage is so-so, especially with bass, and I need to fix that eventually. I'll get the Bottlehead Seduction when time allows.

One thing: the captive output cables are not so great. The shields carry the ground for each side of the signal outputs, and the braid count is really low. Last night, after a year with the table in my B system, I cut off most of the cord and soldered on in-line RCA jacks. Then I reconnected it to the system using my own interconnects. It sounded a whole lot better -- as much improvement as a cartridge upgrade, for $8 in parts (plus interconnects). If your system is worth a $500 table in the first place, I'm sure you'd hear the difference from this simple mod.