[Matthew Willims]

"unbelievably digital files played back through JRIVER are sounding better than my vinyl rig"

This comes as no surprise to me.
I've been running R2R DACs for years.
Vinyl only wins if the mastering is significantly better than CD mastering. (rarely but can happen) yes, DSD uses lots of HDD space to achieve the same thing as 16/44.1

I've experimented with a few R2R DAC'S in the past and enjoyed them. Mostly based around the Philips TDA1543 and TDA1387 chips and I've always found them very enjoyable and musical though they always gave up detail to newer DAC's.

This thing has absolutely blown my mind. It's only weakness is a little low level hum that wouldn't even show if I were running less sensitive speakers otherwise it gives up nothing though with superior musicality, tone and nuance.

The emotional content of music comes across loud and clear and I find myself listening to music I've never even liked before. Crazy stuff

 

[richard51]

With the minimal design implementation of the Philips TDA1543 I cannot detect no lack of details nor any superiority of vinyl over 24 bits files or flac...I know that many problems in audio linked to the insatisfaction of audiophile is correlated to the bad installation of the audio system in the audio grid itself and in the electrical grid of the house and the embedding of the audio system in the acoustic environment of the room...

 

[Matthew Willims]

Ok, I've moved the Muji Studio DAC II into my main system and interestingly there is zero low level hum in this system. It's altogether possible that this system simply doesn't go as deep in terms of bass response though.

 

[conquerator2]

I continue to be thoroughly impressed with the Audio gd R2R11 which uses their own R2R chip. Easily the best all in one I've ever bought for that price

 

[BucketInABucket]

Thinking of selling my DSPro Basic IIIa and downsizing...

 

[arjuna93]

Finally joined the R2R club and IT was a ear opener.
Such a wonderfull and musical sound from this vintage:

What did you compare it to?

 

[MojoAudio]

Of course you do all realize that only R-2R DACs actually DECODE the music.

Delta-Sigma, aka closest approximation DACs, INTERPOLATE using alogrithms rather than actually decoding.

 

[yawg]

Of course you do all realize that only R-2R DACs actually DECODE the music.

Delta-Sigma, aka closest approximation DACs, INTERPOLATE using alogrithms rather than actually decoding.

I still find that the actual DAC is not so important. The line stage makes the sound not the DAC. I love my Cayin DA-2 with German NOS CCa tubes. Can't even see which DAC Cayin used as the lettering on it has been removed by the manufacturer. Top secret haha ...

 

[rkt31]

Of course you do all realize that only R-2R DACs actually DECODE the music.

Delta-Sigma, aka closest approximation DACs, INTERPOLATE using alogrithms rather than actually decoding.

R2r dac can be non interpolating (nos ) and can be interpolating too (os). In fact major chunk of r2r dacs are os type.

 

[sajunky]

R2r dac can be non interpolating (nos ) and can be interpolating too (os). In fact major chunk of r2r dacs are os type.

True. NOS became a popular marketting tool though. It means, there are fake NOS DACs too. Examples:

1. Denafrips (from Ares II to Terminator). NOS mode is actually oversampling with a primitive 16x linear interpolation for the 44.1kHz source. The same target frequency as for OS modes. Verified only very recently by a forum member GoldenOne. How long Denafrips 'NOS' DACs are selling, how many people have bought it for this feature?

2. Holo Audio (expected all). These DACs are made by engineering freaks for the best measurements and a marketting target are current Delta-Sigma users. In fact there is no direct comparison in the the sponsored reviews to the R2R DACs, only DS models. A favourite target is Chord Dave. It is a ladder type segmented architecture (like budget monolytic chips TDA1541, TDA1387, not a pure R2R) with an additional compensation ladder. The additional error compensation is made in FPGA. This alone is not a problem, but a Stereophile test of May one year ago reveal digital filtering present in NOS mode (for every sample rate tested). It is by a definition not a NOS DAC.

 

[arjuna93]

2. Holo Audio (expected all). These DACs are made by engineering freaks for the best measurements and a marketting target are current Delta-Sigma users. In fact there is no direct comparison in the the sponsored reviews to the R2R DACs, only DS models. A favourite target is Chord Dave. It is a ladder type segmented architecture (like budget monolytic chips TDA1541, TDA1387, not a pure R2R) with an additional compensation ladder. The additional error compensation is made in FPGA. This alone is not a problem, but a Stereophile test of May one year ago reveal digital filtering present in NOS mode (for every sample rate tested). It is by a definition not a NOS DAC.

Interesting, did not know this. Thank you.

 

[arjuna93]

Received Esoteric D-30 and can say it’s fabulous! Certainly not inferior to some of the better current DACs.

Once I get Bel Canto uLink, I will try it with ST Optical input. Currently using BNC coax.

 

[550591]

Maybe you guys can help me out.. what is the actual difference between the Schiit bifrost (multibit DAC) and a r2r DAC like the denafrips Ares?

I have currently a DAC streamer with dual Wolfson DAC chips (Cambridge CXN2) and a integrated amp with ess Sabre DAC.

And for my headphone amp (Singxer SA 1) I would like a more analogue approach? But I'm not a fan of vinyl and tube sound.

Suggestions?

 

[sajunky]

Schiit multibit DACs use Analog Devices chips targeted for instrumentation, not audio. It is a ladder type, but a segmented architecture where only a portion of bits are arranged in R2R configuration. It is not a main problem, very popular budget DAC chips TDA1541 or TDA1387 use the similar topology. Schiit DACs always use oversampling an a proprietrary digital filtering.

You mentioned Ares, it will be worthly upgrade from Delta-Sigma implementations if you listen to a music with acoustic instruments. It is a discrete implementation of R2R ladder, it has a separate DSD decoding network (Schiit do not support DSD). There are more R2R discrete implementatios in this price range, I am owing Audio GD R2R-11 $350, currently out of production. It can be still found on sale. It has a discrete pre-amp and headamp which is very good for that price.

Regarding Singxer SA-1, I don't know all details. It says in spec Class A, but only up to 30mA, it will transfer to AB under certain load conditions. It says discrete, but I don't see a proper transistor network, it could be some opamps on a reverse side. A main problem with SA-1 is in power supply. It use a dual sealed SMPS for generating + and - power railes. Such topology is proven to be a hudge source of ground loops. This noise will leak to any equipment SA-1 is connected to. I don't want to have such things in my gear. Topping A90 has the same design fault, in result its single-ended (RCA) inputs are useless.

 

[rkt31]

Schiit multibit DACs use Analog Devices chips targeted for instrumentation, not audio. It is a ladder type, but a segmented architecture where only a portion of bits are arranged in R2R configuration. It is not a main problem, very popular budget DAC chips TDA1541 or TDA1387 use the similar topology. Schiit DACs always use oversampling an a proprietrary digital filtering.

You mentioned Ares, it will be worthly upgrade from Delta-Sigma implementations if you listen to a music with acoustic instruments. It is a discrete implementation of R2R ladder, it has a separate DSD decoding network (Schiit do not support DSD). There are more R2R discrete implementatios in this price range, I am owing Audio GD R2R-11 $350, currently out of production. It can be still found on sale. It has a discrete pre-amp and headamp which is very good for that price.

Regarding Singxer SA-1, I don't know all details. It says in spec Class A, but only up to 30mA, it will transfer to AB under certain load conditions. It says discrete, but I don't see a proper transistor network, it could be some opamps on a reverse side. A main problem with SA-1 is in power supply. It use a dual sealed SMPS for generating + and - power railes. Such topology is proven to be a hudge source of ground loops. This noise will leak to any equipment SA-1 is connected to. I don't want to have such things in my gear. Topping A90 has the same design fault, in result its single-ended (RCA) inputs are useless.

Schiit multibit DACs use Analog Devices chips targeted for instrumentation, not audio. It is a ladder type, but a segmented architecture where only a portion of bits are arranged in R2R configuration. It is not a main problem, very popular budget DAC chips TDA1541 or TDA1387 use the similar topology. Schiit DACs always use oversampling an a proprietrary digital filtering.

You mentioned Ares, it will be worthly upgrade from Delta-Sigma implementations if you listen to a music with acoustic instruments. It is a discrete implementation of R2R ladder, it has a separate DSD decoding network (Schiit do not support DSD). There are more R2R discrete implementatios in this price range, I am owing Audio GD R2R-11 $350, currently out of production. It can be still found on sale. It has a discrete pre-amp and headamp which is very good for that price.

Regarding Singxer SA-1, I don't know all details. It says in spec Class A, but only up to 30mA, it will transfer to AB under certain load conditions. It says discrete, but I don't see a proper transistor network, it could be some opamps on a reverse side. A main problem with SA-1 is in power supply. It use a dual sealed SMPS for generating + and - power railes. Such topology is proven to be a hudge source of ground loops. This noise will leak to any equipment SA-1 is connected to. I don't want to have such things in my gear. Topping A90 has the same design fault, in result its single-ended (RCA) inputs are useless.

How r2r dacs come to know that it has to play specially special for acoustic instruments ?