[doctorjazz]

There is certainly different manufacturing costs in China and the US, labor in China is cheaper. But, saying they both have the same 1704 chip so should be the same misses the implementation...power supply, parts quality/matching, and all that other good stuff that improves sound, but increases cost. Not to put down the AudioGD, they have many fans here, and I haven't heard either one of these dacs.

 

[Joeybgood]

There is certainly different manufacturing costs in China and the US, labor in China is cheaper. But, saying they both have the same 1704 chip so should be the same misses the implementation...power supply, parts quality/matching, and all that other good stuff that improves sound, but increases cost. Not to put down the AudioGD, they have many fans here, and I haven't heard either one of these dacs.

Totally agree with all your points. Just figured that Audio GDs Master 7 is pretty well regarded for using high quality parts and seeing as they are both  balanced, 8 - 1704 chips implementations I figured it might be fair to compare them on pretty even terms. Even if  LB Audio  uses , perhaps, a slightly higher quality power supply etc , the $5.7K difference in asking price seems extreme.  I like to support domestic companies but that is a weeeee bit too much difference $ wise  to absorb and ignore. Also, Les(owner of LB Audio) informed me that that they use the J version of the 1704 while Kingwa uses the U-K(which I believe is regarded as the highest quality of the 1704)

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Totally agree with all your points. Just figured that Audio GDs Master 7 is pretty well regarded for using high quality parts and seeing as they are both  balanced, 8 - 1704 chips implementations I figured it might be fair to compare them on pretty even terms. Even if  LB Audio  uses , perhaps, a slightly higher quality power supply etc , the $5.7K difference in asking price seems extreme.  I like to support domestic companies but that is a weeeee bit too much difference $ wise  to absorb and ignore. Also, Les(owner of LB Audio) informed me that that they use the J version of the 1704 while Kingwa uses the U-K(which I believe is regarded as the highest quality of the 1704)

That's an absurd price difference.... I dont know how much improvement I would have to hear to say that buying the LB audio over the audio GD could be "worth" it

 

[Joeybgood]

That's an absurd price difference.... I dont know how much improvement I would have to hear to say that buying the LB audio over the audio GD could be "worth" it

my sentiments exactly

 

[Joeybgood]

That's an absurd price difference.... I dont know how much improvement I would have to hear to say that buying the LB audio over the audio GD could be "worth" it

I would still love to hear their implementation though.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I would still love to hear their implementation though.

Oh of course... I would too! . Just wouldn't be me funding the bill to find out . I just got a DAC 19 dsp with a 1704 chip and I am enjoying that. Don't even know what a master 7 would sound like....

 

[Joeybgood]

Oh of course... I would too!

. Just wouldn't be me funding the bill to find out

. I just got a DAC 19 dsp with a 1704 chip and I am enjoying that. Don't even know what a master 7 would sound like....

and KIngwa just released the NOS DAC. 8 - 1704 chips. Someone compared the Master 7 and NOS and felt that in most key areas the NOS was superior and more musical than the Master 7. intriguing

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

and KIngwa just released the NOS DAC. 8 - 1704 chips. Someone compared the Master 7 and NOS and felt that in most key areas the NOS was superior and more musical than the Master 7. intriguing

Can you or anyone else help me understand what NOS sounds like? I read about it on Audio GD's website but it wasn't very descriptive. If it's similar to trying to describe tube sound versus solid state then I get the general idea; and realize it's not the easiest to explain without hearing... (If that makes any sense ha)

 

[rkt31]

nos with 44.1khz material sound congested . many people these days use hqplayer to upsample to max supported rate by the nos dac. in one forum of computer audiophile , someone posted analog out recorded sample of yggdrasil ( non nos r2r) and phasure nos1 (nos) fed upsampled data from xxhighend player and to my ears yggdrasil sample was far better than phasure . I remember the poster kept on pushing his phasure nos dac. the yggdrasil sample had better timing, timber and dynamics . phasure sample sounded very congested and sort of dirty.

 

[astrostar59]

nos with 44.1khz material sound congested

This is the sort if ill informed information that I dislike so much.
My advise is spend some time listening to some good example NOS DACs and then come back here. 
 
Lampizator, Audio Note, MSB, dCS. IMO and after hearing many delta-sigma up sampled designs a nice NOS DAC can make Redbook sound so good it is untrue.
 
Some of these DACs can do high res but also read 44.1 as bit perfect and many are filterless.
 
Big subject but NOT one is poor, the other not. DS DACs can sound great as can NOS.

 

[rkt31]

I thought that the topic is about r2r not specifically nos. phasure is not anyway a cheap nos dac I think. even the best of the component can't remove the basic flaw of nos DACs. having said that I am not against r2r DACs. majority of r2r DACs are non nos
including msb.

 

[BassDigger]

Can you or anyone else help me understand what NOS sounds like? I read about it on Audio GD's website but it wasn't very descriptive. If it's similar to trying to describe tube sound versus solid state then I get the general idea; and realize it's not the easiest to explain without hearing... (If that makes any sense ha)

 
This is one of 'those' topics; like DS vs R2R, or 'do cables make any difference?', 'does burn-in really exist?'..etc; people have opinions. (Thankfully, from a position of confirmed ignorance, I do not.)
 
Anyway, is there really an OS characteristic to compare NOS to, and say "That's the NOS sound!"?
And isn't OS just a kind of filter, that's needs filtering itself?
 
Oh! This makes my head hurt!

 

[astrostar59]

I thought that the topic is about r2r not specifically nos. phasure is not anyway a cheap nos dac I think. even the best of the component can't remove the basic flaw of nos DACs. having said that I am not against r2r DACs. majority of r2r DACs are non nos
including msb.

Huge subject, but oversampling is an effort to filter the artifacts from NOS but by the very nature of that then create their own artefacts and problems.
 
So we can say the there are basic flaws in both types.
 
Pure DSD may get around some such issues, but then how many tracks are actually available?
 
Good top of the line DACs are in both camps, but the CH Precision, dCS, TotalDAC and Audio Note units stand out, and Lampizator do both NOS, chip less NOS and DSD units.
 
Best for the buyer to try listening and not get hooked up on theory and tech specs as holes have been shot through those a LOT over the last 5 years.

 

[ericr]

I thought that the topic is about r2r not specifically nos. phasure is not anyway a cheap nos dac I think. even the best of the component can't remove the basic flaw of nos DACs. having said that I am not against r2r DACs. majority of r2r DACs are non nos including msb.

What is this basic flaw?

I've seen this stated in a couple of different discussions, but with no explanation as to what the flaw sounds like or how it impacts sound quality.

It would be nice to see if it's noticeable with my MHDT DAC.

-Eric

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

   
This is one of 'those' topics; like DS vs R2R, or 'do cables make any difference?', 'does burn-in really exist?'..etc; people have opinions. (Thankfully, from a position of confirmed ignorance, I do not.)
 
Anyway, is there really an OS characteristic to compare NOS to, and say "That's the NOS sound!"?
And isn't OS just a kind of filter, that's needs filtering itself?
 
Oh! This makes my head hurt!

"Anyway, is there really an OS characteristic to compare NOS to, and say "That's the NOS sound!"?
And isn't OS just a kind of filter, that's needs filtering itself?"
 
so there isnt an inherent "NOS" sound that is common between NOS dacs? Whats OS mean? ha.  KIngwa just said that some people liked the sound of NOS implementation and some didnt. thats why i just thought there was a certain sound  characteristic that could be identifiable. if there isnt, there isnt. just makes me not understand it even more. thanks all to your input