[Walie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't get it. Time invested = ability. Time+Ability= what an enthusiast really is. It has nothing to do with entitlement, and everything to do with understanding the fundamentals of vehicle systems, understanding how things work together, understanding how to improve those systems, and so on. You just cannot 'buy' satisfaction. That you are arguing that you can is why our society is so hell bent on consumerism; people think you can merely purchase happiness. You can't. You can earn it, but by slaving away to make money, you can't really trade that for much satisfaction. Real satisfaction comes in creating/restoring/modifying things, and changing the world around you. I don't mean purely physical objects either, this could also apply to our society, communities, government, etc.

where did i say you can buy satisfaction? If i had put in 100 hours of overtime at whatever job i did so I could buy whatever i wanted, i would be damn well sure proud of the fact that i worked that hard and had the commitment to do it

Time+ability=enthusiast...so you're telling me that for example if a dude has been confined to a wheel chair for his entire life and absolutely loves cars, but since he can't change his own oil due to being in a wheelchair he'll NEVER be a true automotive enthusiast? That's a bunch of bullcrap

 

[oicdn]

Look up the top secret supra:

Toyota Supra Top Secret in Nardo

That Supra may look ricey as hell, but all of it's "body spoilers" are functional. That beast is FAST. And not just in a straight line...it's on the track.

Supras are a force to be reckoned with, and that's utter proof right there.

This is the newer one they have, but the older one used to have an MR2 4 cyl in it and it'd do in excess of 200MPH. The Castrol Supra has a 4cyl in it and it's a MONSTER. So no, it's not even a dragster thing...it's just straight fast. And it doesn't need an exotic motor to do it. It's using a motor out of an MR2

Like said...I owned an exotic motorcycle. My nearest dealer/service center was 300 miles away. Was it worth driving? Hell yes. It by far has the most character out of ANYTHING I've driven, 2 or 4 wheels. BUT, maintenance was a KILLER, as was finding parts for just things like an oil change, fork oil, and just normal wear and tear things. I can only IMAGINE what it's be like on a car of similar stature. Would I do it again? Probably, because the ride was that good....but all out performance? No....it'd be stupid when I could get the same or better for 1/4 the cost. I'll say it, I was paying for the prestige. Now lets here your lambo owner who gets worked by a supra own up to that....

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baines93 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cash68, you are being totally rediculous. .... You total and utter ignorance is really getting on my nerves now.

Irony....

If you can't even spell common words I don't think you should be calling anyone ignorant.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baines93 /img/forum/go_quote.gif They are far more classy than a souped up Supra, sorry.

You're 15. Once you make it into the really real world I think you'll understand just how classy such an incredible car is, especially for the price.

 

[cash68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walie /img/forum/go_quote.gif where did i say you can buy satisfaction? If i had put in 100 hours of overtime at whatever job i did so I could buy whatever i wanted, i would be damn well sure proud of the fact that i worked that hard and had the commitment to do it Time+ability=enthusiast...so you're telling me that for example if a dude has been confined to a wheel chair for his entire life and absolutely loves cars, but since he can't change his own oil due to being in a wheelchair he'll NEVER be a true automotive enthusiast? That's a bunch of bullcrap

You might enjoy whatever you bought, but you won't be enjoying it as much as the guy who's worked on his car and built it up himself. You will enjoy it more, IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF. You receive more pride in your work than if you trade your efforts for money which you use to buy something, because ultimately it was not your skills that made it so. What hobbies do you have? Any? What do you think would give someone more satisfaction, building and painting a model? Or buying a hot wheels version that is already painted? Which one would they value more, if they had both? Which one would they have more pride in?

The fact that you can't understand such a basic concept worries me, and makes me question just how brainwashed our society has made people. You equate 'owning stuff' on the same realm of creating something with your own faculty of reason. That's insane, in my opinion, yet I am starting to feel that no matter how I explain this, that is your viewpoint and it will not change. I suggest you do some soul searching. Stuff isn't what life is all about. Experiences and knowledge are.

And I don't care if the guy has one arm and he's an albino. If you don't do ANY WORK ON THE CAR YOURSELF YOU AREN'T A REAL ENTHUSIAST.

 

[Samgotit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Irony.... If you can't even spell common words I don't think you should be calling anyone ignorant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not as fast, not as extreme, it's reliable, it's a well put together car, and it's very 'adult' looking. The lambo on the other hand, is very extreme, parts and maintenence are astronomical, it's not something you'd trust to drive long distances, and looks like something a 11-12 yr old would freak out about.

Funny, maintenance doesn't strike me as exotic. If you're going to feign that level of enlightenment, you should be able to back it up.

 

[K2Grey]

en·thu·si·ast
–noun
1.a person who is filled with enthusiasm for some principle, pursuit, etc.; a person of ardent zeal: a sports enthusiast.

Don't see why changing your own oil is necessary to be a car enthusiast. Do you need to build your own violin to be a music enthusiast?

It seems like you have your personal definition of the word which is radically different from everyone else's. In the interest of better communication, how about you provide your definition of "enthusiast" so we know what you are talking about, or use the phrase "dedicated enthusiast" or the like, so we don't get into a semantics debate.

 

[craiglester]

I wonder if any of the Top Gear team, who are car enthusiasts, by any definition of the word, would pick the Toyota over the Lamborghini? Well I guess JC wouldn't seeing as he owns one.. and James may.. doubtful... I think Hammond likes his Morgans.. I guess they're not TRUE enthusiasts though eh?

I wonder if the owner of the Supra did the work himself? If yes, why not do it to the lamborghini too ?

 

[mercbuggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cash68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might enjoy whatever you bought, but you won't be enjoying it as much as the guy who's worked on his car and built it up himself. You will enjoy it more, IF YOU DO IT YOURSELF. You receive more pride in your work than if you trade your efforts for money which you use to buy something, because ultimately it was not your skills that made it so. What hobbies do you have? Any? What do you think would give someone more satisfaction, building and painting a model? Or buying a hot wheels version that is already painted? Which one would they value more, if they had both? Which one would they have more pride in? And I don't care if the guy has one arm and he's an albino. If you don't do ANY WORK ON THE CAR YOURSELF YOU AREN'T A REAL ENTHUSIAST.

Wait, you might have a point. Maybe that is why I love my daughter more than my two cats. I made my daughter MYSELF and my wife grew her, that means we have baby making skills and we can say we are baby ENTHUSIASTS

. I did not have the time or skills to clone my cats and so my love and enjoyment for them is misplaced, shallow and vapid

.

In all seriousness I too like many of the Japanese cars that reflect the more 'prestige' based cars. My problem is 'street-racing' per se, meaning any lime green supra vs Lambo scenarios as an example. Surely buying a car & then ploughing money in to modify it is just as 'owning stuff' as buying the Lambo? Are you telling me that the amount put in one's Supra bears no correlation to one's budget??

 

[mercbuggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Look up the top secret supra: Toyota Supra Top Secret in Nardo That Supra may look ricey as hell, but all of it's "body spoilers" are functional. That beast is FAST. And not just in a straight line...it's on the track. Supras are a force to be reckoned with, and that's utter proof right there.

I am a Supra. I am not feeling very special. I get dressed up in a body kit, I paint myself gold, I tune my engine, no wait...I change my engine to a V12....but it is secret so nobody knows how hard I am trying....to be a Lambo....buts it's OK because my owner MADE me, he (or she) loves me because they wanted me to be more than I was, they wanted me to be more than I ever could dream of being....

 

[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait, you might have a point. Maybe that is why I love my daughter more than my two cats. I made my daughter MYSELF and my wife grew her, that means we have baby making skills and we can say we are baby ENTHUSIASTS . I did not have the time or skills to clone my cats and so my love and enjoyment for them is misplaced, shallow and vapid . In all seriousness I too like many of the Japanese cars that reflect the more 'prestige' based cars. My problem is 'street-racing' per se, meaning any lime green supra vs Lambo scenarios as an example. Surely buying a car & then ploughing money in to modify it is just as 'owning stuff' as buying the Lambo? Are you telling me that the amount put in one's Supra bears no correlation to one's budget??

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am a Supra. I am not feeling very special. I get dressed up in a body kit, I paint myself gold, I tune my engine, no wait...I change my engine to a V12....but it is secret so nobody knows how hard I am trying....to be a Lambo....buts it's OK because my owner MADE me, he (or she) loves me because they wanted me to be more than I was, they wanted me to be more than I ever could dream of being....

WOW....

I'm at a loss for words.

For one, and this isn't directed SOLELY at you, but ANYTHING you BUILD, you'll take more pride in than just going and buying it. Fact of life. Yes, working many hard hours to BUY something is also a great feeling of pride.

A PERFECT example are people who enjoy boats. I can guarantee you there is a TON more pride involved for the guy who went and built his boat from nothing more than laquer, wood, blood, sweat, and tears. Vice the guy who works massive amounts of hours at work to BUY a boat. Yeah, there's pride there, but the guy who built his boat, even if not as extravagant will have A LOT MORE self equity and pride in it. The value may not be as high, but personal value, it's priceless. Anybody who's opinion differs is just wanting to argue and is absolutely dumb, that, or they've never used their own hands to do anything of their own other than hand some cash over to somebody.

And the same applies here. I don't think the guy who built the supra has any problems just going out and buying a lambo. A simple spec sheet can show how astronomically high those mods and tuning time cost to bring that car to that level, let alone that body kit and body work. Obviously, for reasons of his own, he chose that car, and the fruits of his labor are showing by it absolutely RUNNING ALL OVER that lambo. It's an exotic killer that still carries class, and I would have no doubts it could walk all over many other higher powered exotics. It's not like he took a Civic and dropped in a 454 and called it a day. He picked an already VERY WELL performing sportscar and made it even more special. Performance between that LP640 and Supra are not all that different, even on a stock level, but people still hate because it's the underdog and it's beating an exotic? Give me a break.

There's a guy in my neighborhood that owns a Ford GT40 and twin turbo'd it. He could have EASILY bought a plethora of other cars, but for whatever reason, he chose that, and walks all over 1000cc motorcycles. You can't knock that guy for picking a moderately priced car, and making it a BEAST. He built and installed everything HIMSELF.....can you knock him for doing the same thing the guy in the Supra is doing?

In the automotive world, yes, doing it yourself goes alot farther than some ****** who uses his trust fund to fund his projects. It DOES make you that much more of an enthusiast. You don't have to do ALL the work yourself, but you're looked at with a MUCH higher regard if the work, or atleast some of it (sometimes, you HAVE TO leave it to the pros) is done by your own two hands...

I can see there aren't many gear heads here on this forum simply by the tone of some of these posts......

 

[Baines93]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercbuggy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wait, you might have a point. Maybe that is why I love my daughter more than my two cats. I made my daughter MYSELF and my wife grew her, that means we have baby making skills and we can say we are baby ENTHUSIASTS . I did not have the time or skills to clone my cats and so my love and enjoyment for them is misplaced, shallow and vapid . In all seriousness I too like many of the Japanese cars that reflect the more 'prestige' based cars. My problem is 'street-racing' per se, meaning any lime green supra vs Lambo scenarios as an example. Surely buying a car & then ploughing money in to modify it is just as 'owning stuff' as buying the Lambo? Are you telling me that the amount put in one's Supra bears no correlation to one's budget??

HAHA! Another great quote, just like yesterdays on the last page!

Please excuse my spelling Cash68, i typed that up in a real hurry this morning. Sorry if my spelling offended you.

 

[Baines93]

Ocidin, that isnt the only way to enjoy something.

My dad enjoys his car, but he didnt build it, but cares for it, knows how to drive it properly, and enjoys it, however doesnt work on it either.

If you worked hard to buy something, that cost more than building it, using it is satisfying in another way too, you can think how you worked so hard to earn the product.

Just the same as putting in tons of hard work building to earn the final product.

It is the same. And building or working on something is not the only way to enjoy something, as i said above.

Matt

 

[oicdn]

I'm not saying owning it doesn't mean it isn't satisfying driving or using it. But the sense of pride and ownership of using something you've built either from scratch, or rebuilt from the ground up, is immeasurable compared to the guy who even worked MONTHS to save up and buy something...Yeah, working hard for it is one thing, but nothing replaces creativity and originality of building it.

An example in the automotive world is a guy who builds a car and drives it, vs. the guy who bought the car the guy built up and sold. i.e. Buying already hooked up vs. building it yourself. There's no comparison to the satisfaction one gets from building something and using it, especially when it comes to gearheads and thier cars. The person who builds their own car gets significant amounts of props as compared to the guy who bought that magazine car....that guy, virtually gets NONE because he didn't build it. He gets the "nice car", but he doesn't get the respect that comes along with the car....cause essentially, it's not his, it was bought like that.

 

[mercbuggy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif WOW.... I'm at a loss for words. For one, and this isn't directed SOLELY at you, but ANYTHING you BUILD, you'll take more pride in than just going and buying it. Fact of life. Yes, working many hard hours to BUY something is also a great feeling of pride. A PERFECT example are people who enjoy boats. I can guarantee you there is a TON more pride involved for the guy who went and built his boat from nothing more than laquer, wood, blood, sweat, and tears. Vice the guy who works massive amounts of hours at work to BUY a boat. Yeah, there's pride there, but the guy who built his boat, even if not as extravagant will have A LOT MORE self equity and pride in it. The value may not be as high, but personal value, it's priceless. Anybody who's opinion differs is just wanting to argue and is absolutely dumb, that, or they've never used their own hands to do anything of their own other than hand some cash over to somebody. I can see there aren't many gear heads here on this forum simply by the tone of some of these posts......

Please don't be at a loss for words as this is only a discussion of perspective on the same thing. Most of the world's great human achievements were commissioned by people with money, to pay people who had the greatest skill in their fields of talent. In some cases you could argue that these great works only came into existence through this process. There is simply a difference of perspective here. Some people attempt to create their own works, whether music, poetry, literature, Lime Green Supra street-racers. Others appreciate and are inspired by the talent of others. Let us not forget that the people who made the Lambo might also be filled with the same passion, personal pride and technical ability that the Supra guy might have, in fact I would assume this to be the case.

The boat builder needs a commission to create his work or he needs to be paid for his other talents to fund the time and materials to create his opus. Somewhere along the way he needs a happy...paying...customer.

Surely we are here because this forum, in some magical way, manages to combine many of our interests. Sometimes it is serious, sometimes not so, that sets the tone.