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Verum Audio - Exciting high performance DIY planar

Discussion in 'Headphones (full-size)' started by cskippy, Aug 22, 2018.
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  1. elira
    I think a lot of research has reached similar results for noise limits. Listening at high volumes is not a good idea for your hearing, even if you distrust the government.
    trellus and abm0 like this.
  2. cskippy
    Good thing amps come with attenuation devices!

    There is such a thing as noise pollution and some jobs require workers to wear hearing protection. There is well documented data on this.

    I also don't think Verum 1 would survive playing 150dB, actually pretty sure that's an almost impossible number to hit IIRC.
    Garuspik and theangelboy like this.
  3. Ripley
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
    trellus likes this.
  4. katulu
    About 2 weks ago from Garuspik:

    “Hello. I know that I'm very delaying with last ~ 50 plegdges and orders made through website. Let me explain what is going on:

    I've already assembled more then 150 cups (including grills, magnetic system etc). So basically I havу >75 of assembled headphones without headband.

    Unfortunately my lathe machine where I produce titanium knobs was broken ~4 weeks ago and I was waiting for parts to repair it. I've finally received them and hope finish repairs tomorrow and start producing those knobs that're delaying all the process.”
    trellus and cskippy like this.
  5. Currawong Contributor
  6. elira
    Currawong likes this.
  7. abm0
    Nice, but the calculator I'm more worried about with the V1+stock cable is for the voltage divider that forms between the amp output and the driver, including all the contacts and wires in between, and how that will hard-limit the crosstalk performance. Should be something like 20*log(R_CM/(R_CM+R_Drv)), where:
    R_Drv = connector_contact + 0.9 (half the stock-cable resistance of 1.8, assuming it's split 50-50 between GND wire and signal wire) + 8
    R_CM = 0.9 (GND_wire) + connector_contact + amp_out

    So assuming a decent 1-ohm amp_out and a typical 0.1-ohm jack-plug connection, we get:
    20*log(2/11) = -34 dB

    Not looking great. Even NwAvGuy, who wasn't one to overinflate these numbers, said -60 dB is needed for crosstalk to be inaudible (stereo performance to be everything the driver and housing are capable of). I'm surprised there aren't more people worried about this. Sure that wire is thin and flows nicely, but that comes with higher resistance, which in this case is way too close to the driver's own resistance.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    Currawong likes this.
  8. Currawong Contributor
    Good point, thanks. The cases we are looking at are where the numbers aren't close to zero though.

    Crosstalk induced by connectors is a bigger issue sometimes than people realise, absolutely. Then there is crosstalk in amp circuits, which is a whole other issue. I'd never seen numbers or calculations on it though until you posted now.
  9. abm0
    Connectors are the smallest problem in this case though, it's the stock wire that's causing most of the degradation here (and ofc the amp_out could be devastating to stereo performance as well, if you use something stupid like 5-10 ohms). One obvious solution would be to use high quality (thicker) wire for the GND path, get it down to like 0.4 ohms, and add resistance somehow to each driver branch of the cable and get it to a solid 9 ohms or so. With this you'd get a comfortable 20*log(1.5/18.6) = -50 dB of crosstalk. But ofc you'd have to waste half the power into that 9-ohm resistor or cable added to the driver's 8 ohms. :) I guess there's a good reason most headphones don't go below 16 ohms of driver impedance.

    The one reservation I have with all this, though, is that when I saw some people claim that 20-30 dB of separation was enough I A/B tested it with artificially created crosstalk in one song and indeed couldn't hear a difference in extreme left-right placement of sounds. But that was just one song, and tested only with the KSC75. Still need to test more to be sure if the "20-30 is enough" crowd is right or the "you need 50-60" is more likely true.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    Currawong likes this.
  10. Ripley
    Ouch. Looks like that channel imbalance issue that affected some of the initial batch is coming back to haunt the Verum 1:

    I hope Joshua Valour follows up with another review once he gets a fixed pair.
  11. shanecoughlan
    @Garuspik, any comment on the return of this quality control issue?
  12. shanecoughlan
    Updated Serum 1 measurements document. Removed analysis (outdated material) and improved readability.

    @Garuspik, please feel free to include in your website or elsewhere.
    One question:
    96 db/mW sensitivity is from your website.
    116 db/V sensitivity is from your recent post.
    Can you confirm both are correct?

    Source code: https://github.com/shanecoughlan/Verum-1
    Licence: public domain

  13. kintsaki
    Does Audeze and Hifiman pay for shipping to return warranty units for repairs?
    both companies had their fair share of quality issues with drivers dying...

    Recently we have a trend of quite a few young guys reviewing headphones over YouTube , who knows what they are using for
    source, amp, and music, that definitely are half ignorant, and people make decisions on their advise
    knowing that this is advise that is not one that they paid for.

    I must say this time the review was positive but there were other times he lied through his teeth.

    If you want advise you have to pay for it.
    fpantalone and D3athbySp0rk like this.
  14. D3athbySp0rk
    I do agree that there's too many unknown variables in his review. Considering that the verums are very low resistance. Who knows how they will respond with various amps. One has to question if he just simply plugged them into an amp without research into the product he purchased. Throughout his video it seems the information he's gathered has purely been from 2 friends. This thread is simply a google away, even the kickstarter has a lot of replies with good information. And anywhere you can read about how their imbalance issue was fixed hastily after returning the product to @Garuspik.

    The quality control won't be perfect, it's hand made. There's going to be imperfections time from time. But, what you get is a product made with @Garuspik 's best intentions, supporting a brand new label. He cares about his product and customers. You won't get that kind of customer support from most companies.

    In all these cases, the answer is quite simple if the headset is defective. Ship it for repairs, get some awesome perforated pads out of the troubles of doing so. And enjoy a working set of cans.

    Edit: one more thing, I see people occasionally complain about having to pay the shipment price for repairs. He's not a giant company with shipping contracts, allowing massive discounts for the products he ships. People are too use to these global companies. If he was to pay for returns it would slash his profits drastically. On top of that, every headphone he's to repair takes away the time to produce new headphones for the backlogged pre-orders.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    RestlessZombi and Garuspik like this.
  15. kumar402
    I think he uses THX AAA789, not sure though and Topping DX7s as DAC.
    I think in one of his videos he told about his gear and DAC he uses for reviews. I can’t recall correctly but I guess those 2 are used by him.

    For return shipping of defective product, I feel at least for first 15-30 days there should be free shipping for consumer to return defective gear for repair. After 30 days it’s ok to pay shipping for repair as I won’t be happy if I have to pay shipping for a product which comes as defective unit out of the box.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    jaco61, Suppa92 and Hifiearspeakers like this.
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