Verum Audio - Exciting high performance DIY planar
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SilverEars

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I found out just yesterday that the HD650's bass can sound even tighter and more controlled than I thought, depending a lot on the chain. Probably because it has very high impedance in the bass area? We need an amp that can have tight grip over the the driver. That's why people can have differing opinions on it. I thought I was amping it very well with my tube amp, but apparently the bass part was still not maximized. Then I tried it with my new amp. It is like giving muscle to its legs. The HD650 doesn't have much weakness anymore, far from pillowy now.

Compared it with the Verum again with this new setup. These two are still different in dynamic vs planar sound flavor. But HD650 still pulls away in detail, realism, mid tonality, micro-dynamics, and natural staging. It is a more analog sound. The Verum is ahead on slam/impact, focus, separation, and macro dynamics. These are slight differences. Both are in roughly equal level of technicalities.
I have heard 650 bass with a bit of delay, and a bit of veil. 650 depends on the source chain having a tight control over the drivers. This is why there are differing opinions, it's not just difference in hearing. Some people probably have the chain to hear it perform better.

This is why I keep my 6XX.

It can sound a bit warmer, veiled, and bass loose with delay, or not.

So, if Verum sounds like 650, that could be good for those think 650 sound good.
 
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omniweltall

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I have heard 650 bass with a bit of delay, and a bit of veil. 650 depends on the source chain having a tight control over the drivers. This is why there are differing opinions, it's not just difference in hearing. Some people probably have the chain to hear it perform better.

This is why I keep my 6XX.

It can sound a bit warmer, veiled, and bass loose with delay, or not.

So, if Verum sounds like 650, that could be good for those think 650 sound good.
Agreed.

By the way, the Verum doesn't sound like the 650. The 650 still has more warmth. To me, the Verum FR sounds more like the HD600. Just so happens, I was comparing with the HD650; that's all.
 
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I found out just yesterday that the HD650's bass can sound even tighter and more controlled than I thought, depending a lot on the chain. Probably because it has very high impedance in the bass area? We need an amp that can have tight grip over the the driver. That's why people can have differing opinions on it. I thought I was amping it very well with my tube amp, but apparently the bass part was still not maximized. Then I tried it with my new amp. It is like giving muscle to its legs. The HD650 doesn't have much weakness anymore, far from pillowy now.

Compared it with the Verum again with this new setup. These two are still different in dynamic vs planar sound flavor. But HD650 still pulls away in detail, realism, mid tonality, micro-dynamics, and natural staging. It is a more analog sound. The Verum is ahead on slam/impact, focus, separation, and macro dynamics. These are slight differences. Both are in roughly equal level of technicalities.
I never heard the hd6xx series with a high-end amp. But I heard that they scale up endlessly with a better gear.
In contrast, it seems like people are saying that once they get sufficient power, planars do not scale up like those senn headphones. I like it because that allows me to be cheap on an amp side, haha...
But some people said planars are more responsive to a better source/dac, so I put some money on that side. I will see whether that is going to be a valuable investment soon...
 
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Just received mine. Straight out of the box - MacBook Pro/Mojo, w/Sonarworks Tru-Fi set to Monoprice M1060 settings (modified to taste) - I'm very pleased. On the bright side, which suits me fine (67 year old ears with 55 years of rock drumming on em) Not sure what break-in might do, but I'm not worried about it. Bonus if they actually improve :) Looks like my modded 1060's go up for sale :) Mr. G of the Ukraine has provided my end game. Thanks !!
 
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I never heard the hd6xx series with a high-end amp. But I heard that they scale up endlessly with a better gear.
In contrast, it seems like people are saying that once they get sufficient power, planars do not scale up like those senn headphones. I like it because that allows me to be cheap on an amp side, haha...
But some people said planars are more responsive to a better source/dac, so I put some money on that side. I will see whether that is going to be a valuable investment soon...
That's my experience as well. Planars don't seem to have much amp dependency as long as they are sufficiently driven.

Dynamic drivers on the other hand do change characteristic depending on the amp. You'll know when you hear it scaling up, it becomes noticibly significant enough difference. Amp can have tight control and seems precise, but the sound may not be result of transparency or accurate to reality. So, different kind of good sound can result, there can be a transparent kind or not, but still precise sounding.

One may think 650 sounds too soft due to their amp, but another may think their amp turned it into sounding like a planar. It's odd indeed. Once you experience it, you get an interesting picture of audio.
 
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That's my experience as well. Planars don't seem to have much amp dependency as long as they are sufficiently driven.

Dynamic drivers on the other hand do change characteristic depending on the amp. You'll know when you hear it scaling up, it becomes noticibly significant enough difference. Amp can have tight control and seems precise, but the sound may not be result of transparency or accurate to reality. So, different kind of good sound can result, there can be a transparent kind or not, but still precise sounding.

One may think 650 sounds too soft due to their amp, but another may think their amp turned it into sounding like a planar. It's odd indeed. Once you experience it, you get an interesting picture of audio.
Yes, but then there is the Focal Clear, which is also a dynamic headphone. From impressions I read from various sources, the hd650 seems mid-fi in comparison to the Clear which is obtainable around $800.
I am not still convinced to put a handsome amount of money on an amp side when one can get better quality of sounds at a fraction of the cost.
 
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Yes, but then there is the Focal Clear, which is also a dynamic headphone. From impressions I read from various sources, the hd650 seems mid-fi in comparison to the Clear which is obtainable around $800.
I am not still convinced to put a handsome amount of money on an amp side when one can get better quality of sounds at a fraction of the cost.
I think Focal Clear sounds pretty consistant throughout various amping, but Sennheisers for some reasons can have a bit of a gap in performance depending on amping. There are too many amps out there and people trying to steer you in various ways, and you still have to find the right one. It takes a bit of digging unfortunately.
 
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Yes, but then there is the Focal Clear, which is also a dynamic headphone. From impressions I read from various sources, the hd650 seems mid-fi in comparison to the Clear which is obtainable around $800.
I am not still convinced to put a handsome amount of money on an amp side when one can get better quality of sounds at a fraction of the cost.
You have a point there. I only listened to the Clear in a meet. Trying to recall. But it is hard for me to think of the 650 to be below it. This is not mid-fi sound quality at all, through this setup.

Agreed with you and silverears on the planar scaling. It is my experience as well. In general, just give it nuff juice.

Btw guys, these are good discussions. Im learning from it too.
 
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I think Focal Clear sounds pretty consistant throughout various amping, but Sennheisers for come reasons can have a bit of a gap in performance depending on amping.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't dynamics that have a lower ohm rating, less amp dependent? For instance, the Clear is 55 ohm and I have the Elear (w/ Elex pads) and it's 80 ohm and it sounds almost the same out of my LG V20 as it does out of my IFI ICAN SE or any of my amps for that matter. In fact, all of my low ohm dynamics scale very little when using amps. The HD650 is 300 ohm so that would make sense that the amp would matter more when driving it. However, the 650 seems a rather extreme example of this, probably due to the design. I have also heard that 600 ohm Beyer and AKG cans vary more from amp to amp than their lower ohm brethren. I should be able to test this for myself when my 600 ohm DT 990 comes tomorrow.

Planar cans obviously don't follow that rule but I agree that they seem less amp dependent compared to dynamics as long as they are getting enough voltage. However, amp pairings for a specific sound I think are a real thing for planars. For instance, I prefer my planars out of high output impedance amps (vintage and tube amps) because it boosts the bass and smooths out the treble in general. Although my ICAN can do a pretty good job mimicking that effect with their "tube state" sound.

So bringing the conversation back around, I'm curious now, does the Verum need less or more turn on the volume dial for the same sound output level compared to the higher ohm planars like the M1060 (they have the same sensitivity rating but the M1060 is 50 ohm), any HIFIMAN can or an Audeze? Obviously raw volume and being properly driven are two different things but I have confidence that most of this thread has the gear to properly drive the Verum. :)
 
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franz12

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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't dynamics that have a lower ohm rating, less amp dependent? For instance, the Clear is 55 ohm and I have the Elear (w/ Elex pads) and it's 80 ohm and it sounds almost the same out of my LG V20 as it does out of my IFI ICAN SE or any of my amps for that matter. In fact, all of my low ohm dynamics scale very little when using amps. The HD650 is 300 ohm so that would make sense that the amp would matter more when driving it. However, the 650 seems a rather extreme example of this, probably due to the design. I have also heard that 600 ohm Beyer and AKG cans vary more from amp to amp than their lower ohm brethren. I should be able to test this for myself when my 600 ohm DT 990 comes tomorrow.

Planar cans obviously don't follow that rule but I agree that they seem less amp dependent compared to dynamics as long as they are getting enough voltage. However, amp pairings for a specific sound I think are a real thing for planars. For instance, I prefer my planars out of high output impedance amps (vintage and tube amps) because it boosts the bass and smooths out the treble in general. Although my ICAN can do a pretty good job mimicking that effect with their "tube state" sound.

So bringing the conversation back around, I'm curious now, does the Verum need less or more turn on the volume dial for the same sound output level compared to the higher ohm planars like the M1060 (they have the same sensitivity rating but the M1060 is 50 ohm), any HIFIMAN can or an Audeze? Obviously raw volume and being properly driven are two different things but I have confidence that most of this thread has the gear to properly drive the Verum. :)
The Verum is very efficient. You can drive from your IPhone. I recently head three planars. In terms of efficieny, LCD2-CB <<<< HE-1000SE <<<< Verum
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't dynamics that have a lower ohm rating, less amp dependent? For instance, the Clear is 55 ohm and I have the Elear (w/ Elex pads) and it's 80 ohm and it sounds almost the same out of my LG V20 as it does out of my IFI ICAN SE or any of my amps for that matter. In fact, all of my low ohm dynamics scale very little when using amps. The HD650 is 300 ohm so that would make sense that the amp would matter more when driving it. However, the 650 seems a rather extreme example of this, probably due to the design. I have also heard that 600 ohm Beyer and AKG cans vary more from amp to amp than their lower ohm brethren. I should be able to test this for myself when my 600 ohm DT 990 comes tomorrow.

Planar cans obviously don't follow that rule but I agree that they seem less amp dependent compared to dynamics as long as they are getting enough voltage. However, amp pairings for a specific sound I think are a real thing for planars. For instance, I prefer my planars out of high output impedance amps (vintage and tube amps) because it boosts the bass and smooths out the treble in general. Although my ICAN can do a pretty good job mimicking that effect with their "tube state" sound.

So bringing the conversation back around, I'm curious now, does the Verum need less or more turn on the volume dial for the same sound output level compared to the higher ohm planars like the M1060 (they have the same sensitivity rating but the M1060 is 50 ohm), any HIFIMAN can or an Audeze? Obviously raw volume and being properly driven are two different things but I have confidence that most of this thread has the gear to properly drive the Verum. :)
It seems like it, doesn't it? I know 660 and 58X is 150 ohms nominal, and people say it doesn't scale as much as the older siblings, 600 and 650. Utopia can vary from what I experienced and it's only 85 ohms nominal. So, I don't think it's a law or anything.

I didn't find AKG K712 to change all that much either, from a portable source to a desktop chain. Interesting, K712 is fairly flat (relatively compared to something like Focal or Sennheiser with 300 ohm difference in the bass humps).

I think if there is significant valued impedance in the bass hump, a battery operated source might not provide as strong of immediate power to get the same level of bass punch. This is likely why people notice bass the most when comparing battery powered portable device to a desktop amp.
 
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You have a point there. I only listened to the Clear in a meet. Trying to recall. But it is hard for me to think of the 650 to be below it. This is not mid-fi sound quality at all, through this setup.

Agreed with you and silverears on the planar scaling. It is my experience as well. In general, just give it nuff juice.

Btw guys, these are good discussions. Im learning from it too.
I read purrin's comparisons between the hd650 and the clear in the clear measurement thread in the other community. But he might've tested them with an amp which may be not so optimal. who knows.
But regardless of what others say, what we want at the end is just to make our ears happy.
Hope to hear the hd650 with a very good amp in the future!
 
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You know what I like most about this hobby? :wink: When people have directly opposite opinions on the same thing.
If you've never flown, and you go on Youtube and watch videos of people in airports, people boarding jets, people sitting in jets as the jets are taking off, people now looking out their windows as the clouds pass them by...
THen you watch videos that show jets, on the runway, taking off, climbing, and now they are above the clouds...
Then you finally get on a jet and fly.
Its nothing like watching it on Videos.
So, its the same with headphones.
If you want to know what you need to know, then buy them, fly them.
Otherwise, its just hear-say.
 
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Agreed.

To me, the Verum FR sounds more like the HD600. .
Someone thinks the V1 sounds like "the Senn 600 but with the bass of the HD650, yet its a Planar".
Nearly everyone else seems to think they are "bright".
"Bright" like what? Beyer?....AKG ?..... Audio Technica?......HIfiman ?
For my money i hope its not like Beyer...:)
 
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Someone thinks the V1 sounds like "the Senn 600 but with the bass of the HD650, yet its a Planar".
Nearly everyone else seems to think they are "bright".
"Bright" like what? Beyer?....AKG ?..... Audio Technica?......HIfiman ?
For my money i hope its not like Beyer...:)
The Verum's upper mid/lower treble is not bright. It is lush and does take edges off. If the Verum is bright, then my HE-1000SE is bloody bright. I would rather say the Verum is a smooth sounding headphone (perhaps in a slightly dark side) with some treble sparkle above 9-10khz.

It reminds me of the Empyrean, which also has lush mids and a rise above 9-10khz.
 
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