[gug42]

Hello Evryone,
 
 
Well I'd like to test a real  amp, but I don't wan to spend too much money in the amp.
 
From the different response I modify my list.
Any advice about thoses ones please :
- WooAudio WA6  (expensive tube rolling isnt'it ?)
- Traformatic Audio Experience Head One
- Schiit valhalla2 (the more expensive, but I can try the second hand market )
 
My headphone for now are : Hifiman HE-500, Beyer DT-1770, Fostex-thx00.
 
In near future, I willl probably try a shure srh1540.
 
So wich one can be the best quality ? the best sound ?
 
Thank you in advance.
 
Regards,

 

[ProtegeManiac]

...I don't wan to spend too much money in the amp.
 
Any advice about thoses ones please :
- LittleDot mk2 (massDrop in progress)
- DarkVoicie 336SE
- Schiit valhalla2 (the more expensive, but I can try the second hand market )
 
My headphone for now are : Hifiman HE-500, Beyer DT-1770, Fostex-thx00.
 
In near future, I willl probably sell the th-x00 and try a shure srh1540.
In this price range, I think, thoses amps are not powerfull enough to drive a HE-500 ?
 
So wich one can be the best quality ? the best sound ?

 

Why? All of those are Output Transformer-less tube amplifiers. They have a very high output impedance which will lower the damping factor and increase driver distortion on low impedance cans, on top of which, they produce more power at 300ohms through voltage than at 32ohms (which is done through higher current delivery). Add the low efficiency of  the HiFiMan, and you'd be listening to as more distortion than music.

 

To use a pure tube amp with those you need a different topology, like an output transformer-coupled tube drive push pull. Unfortunately, you don't want to spend too much on the amp, and quality output transformers, the resulting size and weight (which affects packaging and shipping), and all the tubes needed will drive up the price.

 

Save your money and get a Lyr later on - it has a tube gain stage and a solid state output stage that doesn't make the same compromises as OTL.

 

[gug42]

Hello

Thank your for your advice. Well better to not count in those little amp to drive a he 500.

Well is it ok for a beyer 250 ohms ?

By the way well if I spend 800 $ can i have thoses tube amp you are speaking ?

Thx

Regards,

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well is it ok for a beyer 250 ohms ?

 
Yes. Of course, while the damping factor won't drastically drop, still note that I can't tell if you like the rest of the distortion intentionally built into some OTL amps, like the Little Dot MkII, which makes for a warmer sound.
 

By the way well if I spend 800 $ can i have thoses tube amp you are speaking ?

 

If you mean the output transformer coupled, all tube headphone amp, I can only think up one off the top of my head that fits within that budget - the WooAudio WA6. The WA6SE, WA22, and WA5-LE all cost more.

 

If you'd go with a hybrid amplifier there's the Schiit Lyr and the Mjolnir for just a bit more.

 

[gug42]

Hello,

Thank your for your answer. Yes it was about with a transformer coupled.  Someone else point me the wa6.   But the tube seems to bit quite expensive isn't it ?

I could have a Traformatic Audio Experience Head One ... any opinion ?

And, well, schiit valhalla 2 seems to have a low impedance output with counter reaction ... any advice about it ? good for money ?  good at all ?

Editv : and i prefer to buy a full tube amp so no lyr

Regards,

 

[aqsw]

$800.00 otl tube amp that is rated for 32- 600 ohms.

Feliks Elise.

http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2016/09/review-feliks-audio-elise-otl-valve-amp.html

and it is probably the easiest amp to tube roll.

I love mine.

Even bought the Euforia!

Oh, It looks so nice too.

 

[gug42]

Thank you  to point me this one
 
Seems to have a great build quality. It's an OTL with, from my research, an output impedance of ~50 Ohms (?)
 
For the same prise, I can have a La figora 339, wich is more powerfull ...
 
By the way, I will buy from the second hand market to lower cost
 
Regards,

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Yes it was about with a transformer coupled.  Someone else point me the wa6.   But the tube seems to bit quite expensive isn't it ?

 

Only if you go with Woo's upgrade tubes. You can find the same tubes for a lot less. And the one that you buy only one piece of isn't that much more expensive than with other designs that use two rectifiers of another type, unless it's a popular enough tube to have a reissue version. Which isn't totally a good thing considering how "real" tube afficionados hate hate hate hate hate resissue tubes. I had a Mullard ECC83 reissue lying around which has lower noise and microphonics than the Shuguang in my amp, and such people basically told me to just trash it or use in a guitar. Why the hell would I want a relatively neutral tube on my guitar amp, when that's where you're supposed to deliberately color the sound. These people just don't make any sense. I even have these to begin with so I can have some kind of baseline, not to mention my pedals with too warm tubes just sounds weird already.
 

Editv : and i prefer to buy a full tube amp 

 so no lyr 

 

That means you're going to have to face the realities of spending on tubes, considering how many tubes you'll have to replace when they fail or tube roll. Hybrids use only preamp tubes so you need only two max.
 

And, well, schiit valhalla 2 seems to have a low impedance output with counter reaction ... any advice about it ? good for money ?  good at all ?

 

It's got a low output impedance for an OTL amp. That's like how I feel like I'm not rich, but then I'm on my Ultrabook and Android watching a UN YouTube ad about how serfs here (literally, we're still a feudal economy) are boiling their rice with corn husk.

 

At the same time power delivery is the same, ie, more power is delivered at 300ohms, and given that many low impedance headphones have a significantly lower sensitivity than their high impedance competitors, you're also more likely to pile on other distortion apart from the impedance-based loss of damping factor.

 

 

 

[gug42]

Thank you for your answer.
 

 Only if you go with Woo's upgrade tubes. You can find the same tubes for a lot less. And the one that you buy only one piece of isn't that much more expensive than with other designs that use two rectifiers of another type, unless it's a popular enough tube to have a reissue version. Which isn't totally a good thing considering how "real" tube afficionados hate hate hate hate hate resissue tubes. I had a Mullard ECC83 reissue lying around which has lower noise and microphonics than the Shuguang in my amp, and such people basically told me to just trash it or use in a guitar. Why the hell would I want a relatively neutral tube on my guitar amp, when that's where you're supposed to deliberately color the sound. These people just don't make any sense. I even have these to begin with so I can have some kind of baseline, not to mention my pedals with too warm tubes just sounds weird already.

 
I understand two thing : 
- reissue or new tube aren't always bad (of course some are). It's depends ....
- can find, for wa6, good money value tubes
 

 That means you're going to have to face the realities of spending on tubes, considering how many tubes you'll have to replace when they fail or tube roll. Hybrids use only preamp tubes so you need only two max.

 
I know this. That's why I dont want to spend to much for the tube amp itself .... have some money to buy a set or 2 of tubes.
 

 

It's got a low output impedance for an OTL amp. That's like how I feel like I'm not rich, but then I'm on my Ultrabook and Android watching a UN YouTube ad about how serfs here (literally, we're still a feudal economy) are boiling their rice with corn husk.

 

At the same time power delivery is the same, ie, more power is delivered at 300ohms, and given that many low impedance headphones have a significantly lower sensitivity than their high impedance competitors, you're also more likely to pile on other distortion apart from the impedance-based loss of damping factor.

 
So the WA6 is more suitable and can drive more headphone (those with low impedance  / medium-good sensitivity and moreover low impedance / low sensitivity like the he500 )?
 
And moreover I like the wa6 "look" with the big tube in the middle. Overall that can be a reason ....
 
Thx again

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I understand two thing : 
- reissue or new tube aren't always bad (of course some are). It's depends ....
- can find, for wa6, good money value tubes

 
AFAIK, although I could be wrong here, but I think even Woo amps come with Shuguang tubes. Those aren't actually bad tubes, it's just that for example even a reissue Mullard is known to have lower noise floor for example, and for me personally that's what I look for more than the tube absolutely just EQ-ing the sound because some very warm tubes can still be very noisy. Even some NOS tubes are like that.
 

  I know this. That's why I dont want to spend to much for the tube amp itself .... have some money to buy a set or 2 of tubes.

 
That's why I'm saying go with a hybrid. You only need at most two preamp tubes, and in some cases, only one. On top of that the Lyr for example runs mostly Class A, and it's not simply a high Class A bias on the solid state output stage.
 

 
So the WA6 is more suitable and can drive more headphone (those with low impedance  / medium-good sensitivity and moreover low impedance / low sensitivity like the he500 )?

 
Yes.
 

 
And moreover I like the wa6 "look" with the big tube in the middle. Overall that can be a reason ....

 
Barring a totally ugly case and color coordination I wouldn't really care all that much about aesthetics.

 

[gug42]

Ok, l thank you to have take time to answer me.

Well perhaps is not the best economic choice but i really want a full tube

I will wait for a second hand, preference will go for wa6.

I prefer the build aspect (photos of the inside) of the wooaudio wa6 over trafomatic audio head one.

By the way, did you know the output impedance of wa6 ?

Cu

 

[ProtegeManiac]

By the way, did you know the output impedance of wa6 ?

 
Not really but considering how even some SS amps have a high output impedance, I wouldn't be surprised if this one does too. You'll just have to hope that it boosts the bass rather than make your headphones sound like tin cans.

 

[aqsw]

  Thank you  to point me this one
 
Seems to have a great build quality. It's an OTL with, from my research, an output impedance of ~50 Ohms (?)
 
For the same prise, I can have a La figora 339, wich is more powerfull ...
 
By the way, I will buy from the second hand market to lower cost
 
Regards,

You did say you wanted value for money. That's why I pointed you to the Elise. Not too sure about your power worries. This amp powers LCDs easily, and lots of other planars too.
There's a guy on the Elise thread has has the Elise and the La Figora. Guess which one he prefers? Anyways , enjoy your Woo ?

 

[gug42]

   
Not really but considering how even some SS amps have a high output impedance, I wouldn't be surprised if this one does too. You'll just have to hope that it boosts the bass rather than make your headphones sound like tin cans.

 
I hope too. I will try to get more informations about this.
From what i read, low impedance output is a necessity for low Z headphone to not have mudy bass ....
 

  You did say you wanted value for money. That's why I pointed you to the Elise. Not too sure about your power worries. This amp powers LCDs easily, and lots of other planars too.
There's a guy on the Elise thread has has the Elise and the La Figora. Guess which one he prefers? Anyways , enjoy your Woo ?

 
I get your point.  But the Elise is an OTL amp .... and it really seems that a transformer coupled output is better (suited) for versatility, and moreover "mandatory" for low impedance headphone.. 
By the way from what i read and from technical people advice.
 
thank you again all
 
Cu