[pazuwu]

So I have a desktop computer, with an external Fulla 2 Schiit as an external DAC and two Yamaha HS7 studio monitors.

Sound is very good under normal conditions (except a very faint hiss/white noise from the tweeters when no sound is playing, which I understand is normal for all studio monitors).

The problem occurs when gaming. When the GPU (rx 480) gets activated, there's usually a buzzing sound coming from the speakers. It sounds like ground loop noise. Sometimes it's louder, sometimes it's not. Some games make it worse, some don't. Sometimes the buzzing is different (louder) with the same game. And sometimes I get digital noise too (not sure if that's what it's called, it's like when you hear the computer processing data, kinda like coil whine), but this usually goes away when I enable v-sync in games.

Anyway, the Internet is full of this issue, but no solution I tried worked for me: plugging everything in the same power strip, in different power strips, different usb cables, tried with/without the external DAC, moved cables around to avoid interference, removed all other consumers from the power socket, moved DAC away from the computer, etc.

I don't believe it's ground loop noise (even if the buzz sounds like it), because it's not there all the time and I've plugged everything into the same power strip. I still have to test by removing the grounding (ground lift?) from the power strip (which by no means will be a permanent solution, because having no grounding is stupid and dangerous).

It's not coil whine from the computer, as some suggest on other forums. The noises come from the speakers, as sounds.
It's not radio interference on the audio cables, because the speakers get quiet as soon as I unplug the usb cable from the DAC and that cable is fairly short.

So my conclusion is that some sort of electrical noise gets passed through the usb cable to the DAC and then to the speakers. I've seen that there are some boxes that do galvanic decoupling on USB, but those supporting Hi-Speed USB are expensive and I don't want to spend a ton of money on something that might not solve the issue.

Which gets me to my actual question:

I've been looking for an audio interface to use with my computer, because I'd like to have balanced outputs for the speakers (I don't really need it, but it'd be fun to have, I guess). So, is there any USB DAC / audio interface with a reasonable price (i.e. < 400€ ) which handles (filters) somehow the noise from the USB line so that this issue will be less annoying? I've seen some that have these things written in their specs, but the prices for those are mind blowing (aka ~$3000)...

Thanks!

 

[Music Alchemist]

The Schiit Wyrd USB power isolator could fix it without having to get other gear. (No guarantees, though.)

Another option would be to get a DAC with optical TOSLINK input and a source that can output that to the DAC. This would electrically isolate the DAC.

I've used a ($30) Behringer UCA202 audio interface to output TOSLINK.

There are plenty of relatively affordable DACs with TOSLINK input. The JDS Labs OL DAC sounds a little better than the Fulla 2 and the Schiit Modi Multibit sounds a lot better. (This is just my own subjective assessment, of course.)

What I did as far as studio monitors (JBL LSR305 in my case) go was to use a ($49) Schiit SYS passive preamp. In many cases, it can sound better than using conventional amps as preamps, since it doesn't have any electronics to potentially alter the signal. (The Fulla 2 in DAC only mode with the SYS sounded better than the Fulla 2 as both DAC and preamp, for example.) As for cables, I used RCA to RCA from the DAC to the preamp and RCA to XLR from the preamp to the speakers. (Now I use those same cables connected to a power amp for passive speakers.)

 

[pazuwu]

The Schiit Wyrd USB power isolator could fix it without having to get other gear. (No guarantees, though.)

Another option would be to get a DAC with optical TOSLINK input and a source that can output that to the DAC. This would electrically isolate the DAC.

I've used a ($30) Behringer UCA202 audio interface to output TOSLINK.

There are plenty of relatively affordable DACs with TOSLINK input. The JDS Labs OL DAC sounds a little better than the Fulla 2 and the Schiit Modi Multibit sounds a lot better. (This is just my own subjective assessment, of course.)

Yeah, I guess this would be another option to avoid electrical interference. I'll give it some thought

By the way, could I use the S/PDIF output from my motherboard for a DAC which supports TOSLINK?

What I did as far as studio monitors (JBL LSR305 in my case) go was to use a ($49) Schiit SYS passive preamp. In many cases, it can sound better than using conventional amps as preamps, since it doesn't have any electronics to potentially alter the signal. (The Fulla 2 in DAC only mode with the SYS sounded better than the Fulla 2 as both DAC and preamp, for example.) As for cables, I used RCA to RCA from the DAC to the preamp and RCA to XLR from the preamp to the speakers. (Now I use those same cables connected to a power amp for passive speakers.)

So, if I got this right, Computer ----> DAC -----> Schiit SYS -----> speakers ? I'm not good at electronics, but in this case the noise still reaches the DAC and should be also present in the DAC's analog output...can the SYS clear that ?

 

[Music Alchemist]

By the way, could I use the S/PDIF output from my motherboard for a DAC which supports TOSLINK?

So, if I got this right, Computer ----> DAC -----> Schiit SYS -----> speakers ? I'm not good at electronics, but in this case the noise still reaches the DAC and should be also present in the DAC's analog output...can the SYS clear that ?

S/PDIF can be coaxial or optical. For optical TOSLINK, you need a TOSLINK output and a TOSLINK cable. Some DACs support coaxial too. (But coax doesn't give you electrical isolation.)

Go to Google Images and do some searching to see what everything looks like and what you would need if you want to use your motherboard's output.

Yes, that's the order you would connect things.

No, the SYS has no electronics and will not alter the signal aside from attenuating it. It's for controlling the volume as a preamp and/or switching between components.

 

[Nuuk]

" but those supporting Hi-Speed USB are expensive and I don't want to spend a ton of money on something that might not solve the issue. "

Why do you believe that you need hi-speed USB?
USB 1.1 is enough for operation of USB DAC, and wont set any limitations to it(atleast up to sampling rate of 96kHz). It will work as good as it would on USB 3.0 or what ever

So I therefore suggest you buying that affordable isolator and hope it helps

oh btw, dont be fooled by the marketing mens speeches about your fulla dacs using usb 2.0, you can google it your self but it uses an CM6631 ic for the USB which Supports usb 2.0, but does not force anyone to use that. It is backwards compatible down to usb 1.0 and I also read that Fulla can do up to 96kHz sampling rate maximum which is well in limits atleast for for usb 1.1

 

[theveterans]

Sound is very good under normal conditions (except a very faint hiss/white noise from the tweeters when no sound is playing, which I understand is normal for all studio monitors).

Zero noise from my HS7s on a very quiet room unless I put my ears less than an inch to the tweeter.

The problem occurs when gaming. When the GPU (rx 480) gets activated, there's usually a buzzing sound coming from the speakers. It sounds like ground loop noise. Sometimes it's louder, sometimes it's not. Some games make it worse, some don't. Sometimes the buzzing is different (louder) with the same game. And sometimes I get digital noise too (not sure if that's what it's called, it's like when you hear the computer processing data, kinda like coil whine), but this usually goes away when I enable v-sync in games.

Never heard the HS7 give off coil noise buzzing noises when I'm gaming.

As for isolation, I don't think Schiit Wyrd will help since it's still USB. I do agree with Music Alchemist that you should use TOSLINK to rectify the issue, but to me I didn't need TOSLINK and just use Coaxial SPDIF

 

[Music Alchemist]

As for isolation, I don't think Schiit Wyrd will help since it's still USB.

In case you aren't familiar with the Wyrd, check the official page, including the FAQ section.

http://www.schiit.com/products/wyrd

It isolates your USB DAC from the noisy USB power coming from your computer, and provides a stable, precise oscillator to repeat the USB 2.0 packets with a USB hub chip.

Wyrd does two things: it replaces the noisy USB power from your computer with a low-noise linear power supply (no switchers here!) with precision regulators rated at 2.5uV RMS noise. (Or, as Mike Moffat says, “on the 8th day, God called National Semiconductor and told them how to make the best regulator in the world, the LM723."). This is literally 200,000x better than some of the USB ports we’ve measured, which have up to 500mV of high-frequency noise. It also uses a tightly spec’d crystal oscillator on its own filtered power supply for the USB repeater chip, for best possible stability.

 

[pazuwu]

Never heard the HS7 give off coil noise buzzing noises when I'm gaming.

No, sorry, that's not what I meant...I was referring to other suggestions from the Internet, for similar issues, which implied that the noise might actually come from the computer and that it's coil whine. I've should have added more details (I'll edit the op).

In case you aren't familiar with the Wyrd, check the official page, including the FAQ section.

http://www.schiit.com/products/wyrd

Well, now I'm convinced the Wyrd (and similar devices) will solve my problem, because I kinda "solved" it a few hours ago: split open the USB cable between the computer and DAC, disconnected the VCC + GND from the computer side and attached an external power source for the dac, using the disconnected wires. Bam! Buzzing gone So the buzz is from the USB power...


But that's another story, I'm still looking for a new DAC.
I'm new to the HI FI things, as you might have realized, and initially wanted to buy a USB studio audio interface, because those have balanced outputs...but now that Music Alchemist mentioned an optical connection, I started looking at the "other" DACs too (the ones made for consumers). They indeed have multiple input options (optical, coax, USB, etc.), but most of them have unbalanced outputs and I'm puzzled as to why HI FI equipment doesn't use balanced (it's true this option usually appears when the price goes up...a lot).

 

[Music Alchemist]

They indeed have multiple input options (optical, coax, USB, etc.), but most of them have unbalanced outputs and I'm puzzled as to why HI FI equipment doesn't use balanced (it's true this option usually appears when the price goes up...a lot).

I use the balanced inputs of my power amp (and used the balanced inputs of the active studio monitors in the past) by simply using RCA to XLR cables. I think the whole "fully balanced chain" thing is nothing but hype. In fact, there are many arguments for why single-ended is superior. But you can use the balanced inputs without having to have balanced output further up the chain.

 

[theveterans]

I use the balanced inputs of my power amp (and used the balanced inputs of the active studio monitors in the past) by simply using RCA to XLR cables.

No. RCA is always unbalanced as it only has 2 connections: live and ground. Two of the pins in the XLR connector are hooked up as ground so your connection is still unbalanced. You can look up to your manual or Genelec studio monitor speaker manual to confirm this.

I'm new to the HI FI things, as you might have realized, and initially wanted to buy a USB studio audio interface, because those have balanced outputs...but now that Music Alchemist mentioned an optical connection, I started looking at the "other" DACs too (the ones made for consumers). They indeed have multiple input options (optical, coax, USB, etc.), but most of them have unbalanced outputs and I'm puzzled as to why HI FI equipment doesn't use balanced

Adding a balanced circuitry to a DAC with discrete components aside from the discrete single ended topology are expensive since it's literally two circuitries in one box. Audio interfaces (cheap ones) uses a much more economical way (e.g. using op-amps in its gain stage) for its balanced circuitry and they use a simple stage to convert it to single ended instead of separate JFET buffer stage for both single ended and balanced.

FYI, I connect unbalanced to my speakers and the sound is much better than balanced output from audio interfaces from the pro-audio stores where I demoed it

 

[Music Alchemist]

No. RCA is always unbalanced as it only has 2 connections: live and ground. Two of the pins in the XLR connector are hooked up as ground so your connection is still unbalanced. You can look up to your manual or Genelec studio monitor speaker manual to confirm this.

I never said that RCA is balanced; I merely said that I use the XLR inputs of my power amp via RCA to XLR cables. In your quote, you removed the rest of my post, which tells the full story:

I use the balanced inputs of my power amp (and used the balanced inputs of the active studio monitors in the past) by simply using RCA to XLR cables. I think the whole "fully balanced chain" thing is nothing but hype. In fact, there are many arguments for why single-ended is superior. But you can use the balanced inputs without having to have balanced output further up the chain.