Usb 2.0 or usb 3.0
Mar 13, 2020 at 11:57 AM Post #3 of 13
SupperTime said:
Do I need a usb a to b in 2.0 or 3.0 for external dac
I can spend about 150/200 which way do I go? To connect laptop to external dac (external dac is self powered)
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Depends on your DAC mostly. A lot of DACs are USB 2.0 only anyway. Keep in mind that some DACs have additional USB isolation/filtering build in so you may not need a better cable, especially above the price range you have mentioned. For example for Mojo I am using WireWorld Ultraviolet 8 and it fits your price range.
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 4:14 AM Post #5 of 13
alekc said:
[1] Depends on your DAC mostly. A lot of DACs are USB 2.0 only anyway.
[2] Keep in mind that some DACs have additional USB isolation/filtering build in so you may not need a better cable, especially above the price range you have mentioned.
[2a] For example for Mojo I am using WireWorld Ultraviolet 8 and it fits your price range.
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1. No, it doesn't. As @Roseval effectively stated, USB 2.0 already has many times more bandwidth than necessary.

2. Any USB 2.0 DAC should have the "isolation/filtering built in" to handle a USB 2.0 signal, otherwise it's not a USB 2.0 DAC/device. ...
2a. The same is obviously true of a USB 2.0 cable, either it can pass a signal according to the USB 2.0 specifications/standard or it isn't a USB 2.0 cable. That's of course the whole point of having a USB Standard in the first place! Therefore, an AmazonBasics USB 2.0 cable ($7) will perform identically to a WireWorld Ultraviolet 8 USB 2.0 cable ($80), unless one of them isn't actually a USB 2.0 cable or your DAC is faulty (or not a USB 2.0 DAC).

G
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 7:21 AM Post #6 of 13
@gregorio

It is not only about bandwidth. USB implementation is much more than bandwidth difference. BTW: I never said there is not enough bandwidth in USB 2.0. I've just said that some DACs are 2.0 (so there is no point in getting USB 3 cable at all) only while few are USB 3.x compatible (and here you can decide), just like additional devices in your setup. Anyway I do not want to argue, however point 2 is not entirely correct: DACs do differ in USB isolation and filtering implementation. This has impact on the price tag too usually. Your statement makes no sens in this point as if something is not USB device than it can not work over USB. As simple as that.

The USB has not been designed for hires Audio in the beginning. It was about mice, keyboards, printers etc. Secondly RFI is an issue here for example and you can pass USB specs while still have RFI. Both RFI and ground issues very from setup to setup so YVMW. It all depends also on DAC design (like stated already above). For example Mojo is a lot more vulnerable to USB cable issues than Fiio Q5s from my experience. So I am running Q5s using stock cable while Mojo using WireWorld cable.
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 7:51 AM Post #7 of 13
alekc said:
[1] Anyway I do not want to argue, however point 2 is not entirely correct: DACs do differ in USB isolation and filtering implementation.
[1a] This has impact on the price tag too usually.
[1b] Your statement makes no sens in this point as if something is not USB device than it can not work over USB. As simple as that.
[2] The USB has not been designed for hires Audio in the beginning. It was about mice, keyboards, printers etc.
[3] Secondly RFI is an issue here for example and you can pass USB specs while still have RFI.
[4] Both RFI and ground issues very from setup to setup so YVMW. It all depends also on DAC design (like stated already above).
[5] For example Mojo is a lot more vulnerable to USB cable issues than Fiio Q5s from my experience. So I am running Q5s using stock cable while Mojo using WireWorld cable.
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1. I didn't say they didn't.
1a. Yes it can. Apparently, as the price increases the competency of the "isolation and filtering implementation" decreases. This is demonstrated by the fact that many audiophiles with more expensive DACs have to buy more expensive cables/add-ons to achieve what relatively cheap DACs already achieve.
1b. Exactly my point! If a USB device does not operate optimally with a USB specified signal, then it's not a USB device!

2. USB was designed for digital data and hires digital audio data is obviously digital data.

3. Of course, because the USB specs are designed to PERFECTLY transport digital data even with RFI or any other type of interference. Anything else would be pointless/useless.

4. It does indeed depend on the DAC design and any competent design, like those found even in relatively cheap DACs, will isolate those ground and other interference issues to well below reproducibility and audibility. Like I stated already above!

5. Then either the Mojo is very incompetently designed or your experience is flawed.

G
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 8:34 AM Post #8 of 13
@gregorio would you be so kind and show me which points of USB specs exactly covers all of you statement? I would appreciate it.

gregorio said:
5. Then either the Mojo is very incompetently designed or your experience is flawed.
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This is like saying that Audi A3 is incompetently designed since it is slower than any of RS models and yet saying that is it slower is flawed experience and at the same time saying that Porsche 911 from 80's is slower from 2020 model and the one from 80's has been incompetently designed. Oh and you still need a track/road and gas station to drive you car. So you are taking out of equation your computer/notebook USB controller as well. As far as your trust in USB specs goes please read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Old-New-Thin...?keywords=old+new+thing&qid=1584189112&sr=8-1 there is a great story why it is not working like one would expect :) Great read overall too!
 
Mar 14, 2020 at 12:46 PM Post #10 of 13
alekc said:
[1] @gregorio would you be so kind and show me which points of USB specs exactly covers all of you statement? I would appreciate it.
[2] This is like saying that Audi A3 is incompetently designed since it is slower than any of RS models and yet saying that is it slower is flawed experience and at the same time saying that Porsche 911 from 80's is slower from 2020 model and the one from 80's has been incompetently designed. Oh and you still need a track/road and gas station to drive you car.
[3] As far as your trust in USB specs goes please read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Old-New-Thin...?keywords=old+new+thing&qid=1584189112&sr=8-1 there is a great story why it is not working like one would expect :) Great read overall too!
[4] So you are taking out of equation your computer/notebook USB controller as well.
[5] What about the 5v part of a usb.?
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1. All of the USB specification covers all of my statements but if you want the part relevant to signal interference, then the sections that specify the eye pattern are pertinent.

2. No it's not, it's absolutely nothing like saying an Audi A3 is incompetently designed relative to another car, because there's no principle of any car that performs perfectly (which is the WHOLE principle of digital data/audio), let alone one that does so for peanuts! If there were some cars that performed perfectly and cost <$100, would you say that a car that didn't perform perfectly and cost $400 was competently or incompetently designed?

3. But it is working as I expect. I've measured the differences between a relatively cheap USB DAC and a top of the line pro DAC, the differences were tiny, way below audibility. Additionally, the data transfer of a cheap USB ADC, using generic USB 2.0 cables, was perfect (IE. No errors at all).

4. Of course I'm not! Are computer/notebook USB controllers actually USB compliant, do they produce a USB compliant digital signal? If so, then a USB DAC must, by definition, be able to correctly handle that signal correctly (or be incompetently designed). You don't seem to know what a digital transfer "standard" is or why they exist.

5. What about it? Is the 5v power supply part of the USB specification? If so, then obviously a USB DAC has to be able to handle what's specified in the USB specifications or it's incompetently designed!

I don't understand how all this is so difficult to grasp?

G
 
Apr 15, 2020 at 10:25 PM Post #12 of 13
2.0 is good enough. Many options to choose from these days, does not have to be expensive.
 
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