Upgrading MM Cartridge and Phono Preamp

[noddyisking]

I have recently bought a Musical Fidelity X-Can V3 and Senn HD650's to improve the quality and allow increased use of a setup I have in a small room/office off our bedroom. I now want to upgrade the vinyl source. Currently I have a Dunlop Systemdek II with a Linn Basik Plus tonearm and a Linn K9 cartridge going through a Nad PP1 preamp to a Nad C340 integrated amp. I need to change cartridge as you can no longer get a replacement stylus for the K9 and will also upgrade the preamp at the same time. Budget is around £150/€200. Considering the Ortofon 510 and Pro-ject Phono Box.

Musical taste is mainly indie rock. My vinyl collection dates from the early 70's to the mid 80's with a few recent editions like Wilco's Sky Blue Sky.

Any views and alternative suggestions welcome!!

 

[memepool]

The K-9 was pretty over-rated and over-priced so you're well rid of it. I paid 130UKP for the last one I bought about 7 years back and there are so many much better carts out there these days.

If you like the sound of the K-9, which I'll admit gels really well with suspended subchassis decks you could try the Audio Technica's, like the AT110 which isn't that far from the K-9 or else the AT440 which is much better still. (AT made the K-Series for Linn BTW).

The Ortofon's are also really nice but go for the new 2M ones rather than the old OMs which are a bit too mellifluous for rock.

I'd say you are better off just upgrading the cart as there is not much to be gained over the NAD stage you have at this price level and so just blow the lot on a better cart.

Goldring 1000 series are another good option with a slightly more relaxed sound but not quite so sweet and as Ortofons with much better bass.

My favourite MM cart upgrade ever on a pretty similar set up to yours ( Logic Tempo Electronic) with the Linn LVX was a bit more offbeat. See if you can track down a Shure V15 series IV on ebay for 50 quid or less. Go for one without a stylus as it should be cheaper. Then order the SAS stylus upgrade from JICO in Japan for around 100USD and you'll have one of the best MM carts ever.

Your next upgrade should really be a new tonearm like the Rega RB250 which would allow you to dable in more esoteric Moving Coil carts.Audio Note Home Page now own ( Dunlop ) Systemdek so they should be able to supply a new arm board not to mention a host of other spares and tweaks like an acrylic platter etc.

 

[jonnywolfet]

if you want to try a modern MM that sounds very very nice (to my ears, compared to a grado blue and an mp11). lots of midrange and treble detail, you could look into the ortofon 2m range. i have a lot of success with the linn basic+ and a blue 2m on my lp12.
i would look into the tonearm though, a good cart wont do its best on the linn basic, its a pretty compromised arm. any MC above the denon dl103 will be lost on the LVX, so either hit mid/top end MM (like me) or look into a "longer term investment".
i am looking into some diy possibilities on a unipivot arm to replace my basic +.
as far as phono stage goes, i have only heard mine, so cant offer any info.

My 2c based on my experience, as always YMMV


edit: i agree on not upgrading the phono-stage too, the next upgrade step is a big one with vinyl, the performance of all components needs to be at a similar level, otherwise it just wont work. that means upgrading the tonearm, cart and phono stage all at once. not something ill not be able to afford for a long while.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnywolfet /img/forum/go_quote.gif edit: i agree on not upgrading the phono-stage too, the next upgrade step is a big one with vinyl, the performance of all components needs to be at a similar level, otherwise it just wont work. that means upgrading the tonearm, cart and phono stage all at once. not something ill not be able to afford for a long while.

interesting as the the standard Linn orthodoxy is the upgrade deck>arm>cart>phonostage
but having said that though I have heard decks like the Systemdek sound amazing via a Linn phonostage.

 

[jonnywolfet]

well, having not much knowledge on the systemdeck, i only assume that its competent, obviously nothing is better than the lp12

,
my point being that to get a worthwhile step up, there is no point in investing in a great cartridge, if your tonearm will let it down sonically. in this case, money is better spent on more LP's IMHO.
if an upgrade path is going to be invested in, then yes, Deck>Arm>Cart>Phono stage is the way to go.

 

[noddyisking]

Thanks for the help and advise folks. At this stage I don't really want to upgrade the TT or the arm, mainly because I can't see myself spending enough time listening to vinyl to justify it, much as I am tempted to acquire an LP12, now that I can afford one!! The budget of £150 is not absolute. What I am really after is a new cartridge that will improve on the K9. If a new preamp will give me a noticeable improvement with a MM cartridge and the basic plus arm, the I will invest here also. So from this forum and the guys at Rock Grotto and Shaun at A1 Sound in Sheffield, I have got the cartridges down to the AT-110, Ortofon 510, Ortofon 2M Red or Blue, Goldring 1012, 1022, 1042 and trying to pick up a second hand Shure V15 series IV. I now believe that I have to go better than Pro-ject Phono Box to get a true upgrade and am considering the Gram Amp 1 and 2, second hand Rega Fono and the T-Preamp model TC-754.

So the question is: with the Basik Plus and Systemdek II and a Nad C340 integrated amp feeding Mordaunt-Short 902i's or MF X-Can V3/ Senn HD650's, is it worth splashing out £250 to £350? If it is would the Goldring 1042 and the Gram Amp 2 be the best option?

And then when I am hooked on vinyl and get an LP12.............. Someone please stop me NOW

 

[memepool]

The Systemdek is a fine turntable which can be greatly upgraded to surpass many versions of the LP12 so I wouldn't sweat it.

What I was getting at was that you're better off spending 120UKP on upgrading the tonearm to a Rega RB250 before blowing any more on a phonostage as you will see a much bigger improvment in sound per pound, or indeed Euro, going down this route.

The LVX is a decent enough arm all the same with the benefit of a removable headshell and you could also consider sending it off for servicing and rewiring with Audio Origami
which would also be a worthwhile upgrade. It has a more lively sound than the Rega but lacks the same level of control.

Of the carts you mention the AT-110 / OM510 are more replacements than upgrades. The AT440, newer Ortofons or better still Goldring 1022GX upwards will definitely outshine the old K-9. I would shop around on the net somewhere like Audio Cubes II - High Fidelity Audio Products for Japanese carts or Williams Schallplattennadel Shop for European ones. British carts like the Goldring are probably cheapest in the UK though.

The Shure V15 is arguably the best MM cart ever made which cost as much as your LVX arm back in the day so to progress beyond this you would really need a better arm. See here Shure V 15 MR
Unfortunately it's no longer made and so the series IV / JICO route is the most affordable option as the VMR and VxMR goes for silly money these days.

 

[ssportclay]

In the Audio Technica line,you might also want to consider the AT120E.With it's nude elliptical stylus,its a better cartridge than the AT110.BTW, many Audio Technica fans often feel that the nude elliptical styli cartridges sound better than the more expensive fine line cartridges both old and new.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I've had terrific results from a Grado Gold and a Platinum. Haven't had a lot of experience with cartridges yet, but I have been very pleased with those two Grados.

 

[noddyisking]

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and help. I know that I should really be looking at a tonearm upgrade, but, from what I can determine, there is no one in Ireland, North or South who would do the work for me and I would prefer to have it professionally fitted. So, I am 99% decided on a Graham Slee/Goldring combination - probably the Gram Amp 2 SE and Goldring 1042. I will then upgrade the tone arm when I get the opportunity to get the Systedek to the UK and back safely.

Currently listening to "Feats Don't Fail Me Now" on the current set - sublime - digital just can't sound like this!!

Views on the decision??

 

[memepool]

Try Cloney Audio /Dublin, Ireland/ - Hi-Fi, Home Cinema and Custom Installation Specialists in Blackrock or Ceol Products in Rathmines as both have done turntable related work for me in the past.

 

[noddyisking]

Thanks for that. I put a call in to Cloney yesterday but they didn't get back to me yet. I will try again. I was not aware of the guys in Rathmines. Will contact them today.

 

[noddyisking]

Spoke to the guy in Cloney Audio this morning. He is going to have a look at the turntable for me. Having thought about it long and hard again last night, I will probably just replace the cartridge at this point, see how much time I get to listen to vinyl, buy a few new LP's and think about a tone arm and preamp upgrade later in the year. He recommended the Ortofon 2M red or blue. Has anyone compared them? Is the blue worth the extra money? Would I hear a difference between them in my system - see earlier posts.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noddyisking /img/forum/go_quote.gif Spoke to the guy in Cloney Audio this morning. He is going to have a look at the turntable for me....He recommended the Ortofon 2M red or blue. Has anyone compared them? Is the blue worth the extra money? Would I hear a difference between them in my system - see earlier posts.

The 2M carts are all well reviewed and your system will definitly be able to resolve improvments from the Blue. Carts have just gone up in price a lot in recent years I'm afraid and there is a Bronze and a Black further up the range. The black is meant to be awsome.

Glad Cloney are being helpful. They are definitely one of the best dealers in Ireland in my experience. Back in the days when I used to go there they sold Michell and Linn stuff but these days I think they are more focused on Pro-Ject and Clearaudio, probably because they are better value in Euros. Their turntable knowledge goes back a long way anyway.

All the manuals can be downloaded here BTW Systemdek | Manuals Free Download, Owners, Service, Schematics, Brochures | Vinyl Engine in case you don't have them.

As far as changing the arm goes it's really not that difficult to do it yourself you know. Easier than setting up a cartridge probably. The Systemdek has an armboard which is easily removed and Audionote will supply a new one predrilled for Rega arms. They actually supply their own versions of the Rega arm which come with their updated versions of the Systemdek as well so you could order the whole thing pre-mounted and just drop it in already pre-aligned. Or else maybe Cloney will be willing to do that for you as there is no Audionote dealer in Ireland unfortunately.

 

[noddyisking]

Thanks for all your help. I probably have the manual at home somewhere, but printing it out is easier than a trawl through boxes in the attic. I'll give the guys in Audio Note a call and look at costs and options on a new arm. Hope to get the turntable into Cloney tomorrow!!