[nasty nate]

Hi All,

My current setup is as follows:

Amazon HD Music (on a MBP '17) -> Modi 3 USB -> Asgard 2 -> Sennheiser HD600
--

Can someone comment on whether an upgrade to a much more expensive DAC from Schiit's lineup will be worthy? Where does the law of diminishing return occur?

I understand the apprehension in answering a "should I upgrade 'x' in my system" thread, but finding consensus is difficult, especially for external DACs.

Instead of having someone of greater experience "pick something new for me", I'd rather have help understanding the differences between a $100 DAC such as the Modi 3, and the Bifrost MB which is priced at $700. For the sake of argument, let's say that every component in the chain is of equal or greater value than my current DAC.

My headphones are not balanced, so a balanced output from a DAC would go unused. Is this part of the greater expense? These are the sort of answers I'm looking for when comparing the two, or any others you note in your answer.

The reason for my search for a new DAC is the sound signature of my music at times. Quiet, simple music often sounds incredible, but as we step into busy territory I start to experience listening fatigue / sharp high end.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

-Nate

 

[ProtegeManiac]

My current setup is as follows:

Amazon HD Music (on a MBP '17) -> Modi 3 USB -> Asgard 2 -> Sennheiser HD600
--

Can someone comment on whether an upgrade to a much more expensive DAC from Schiit's lineup will be worthy? Where does the law of diminishing return occur?

I understand the apprehension in answering a "should I upgrade 'x' in my system" thread, but finding consensus is difficult, especially for external DACs.

You're not going to get enough of a consensus from the responses here either.

That said, I came across an article a few weeks ago where they found an anomaly in the measurements whenever USB is used on Modis, even the Modi3. It might not happen on all computers but if your Macbook has the 3.5mm+SPDIF optical output then get that kind of cable and test the Modi via optical input.

If there's no discernible difference, it's either the problem doesn't occur with your kind of computer, or you can't perceive the difference. Either way i'd just sit back and listen.

If there's any discernible difference then obviously the Modi has a problem, and if you'd much rather use USB for any reason, then that's a good reason to get a new DAC.

Instead of having someone of greater experience "pick something new for me", I'd rather have help understanding the differences between a $100 DAC such as the Modi 3, and the Bifrost MB which is priced at $700. For the sake of argument, let's say that every component in the chain is of equal or greater value than my current DAC.

Assuming both DACs measure the same ie no anomalies using a sinesweep - ie the response curve, voltage, noise levels, comparable channel separation, etc - chances are the only discernible difference is imaging. As to whether you can perceive that is something nobody else can answer for you.

In some cases just having ridiculously lower noise or slightly higher voltage without a noise penalty can make for a discernible difference especially if during the comparo the two configurations aren't checked for output levels using a 1000hz sine wave.

My headphones are not balanced, so a balanced output from a DAC would go unused. Is this part of the greater expense? These are the sort of answers I'm looking for when comparing the two, or any others you note in your answer.

A balanced drive amp has a bigger effect even if it has to take a signal from a single-ended DAC. Or even a dual mono headphone amp that just has separate circuits for left and right and otherwise has no trouble taking a single ended line signal just like using a single ended preamp with two separate mono bloc power amps with speakers. it's just that a balanced output DAC will maximize the balanced amp provided that sending out a higher voltage signal actually does happen without increasing distortion and noise on the line signal input to the amp.

That said a balanced output DAC-HPamp like the AudioGD NFB-28 is the easiest way to go about this since all you need is a digital cable.

The reason for my search for a new DAC is the sound signature of my music at times. Quiet, simple music often sounds incredible, but as we step into busy territory I start to experience listening fatigue / sharp high end.

That sounds a wee bit more about the amp and the headphone than the DAC.

The "busy" parts tend to also be louder, so regardless of the signal chain, the softer, quieter, lower output and simpler (in terms of layering) parts will always have less of a tendency to scratch your eardrums.

Feed all that into an amp that doesn't have a lot of imaging and separation vs, say, a more expensive amp with a slight bit of aggressive "liveness" to how forward the presentation is and have that drive a headphone that has some examples with a spike at the 3500hz to 4000hz range, which you might be wearing with worn pads and/or the driver center is too centered to your ear canal (move them slightly forward; if the pads are worn, buy the Brainwavz HM5 angled hybrid pads, gut the original pads, mount those onto the plastic mount and mount that onto the headphone) and you have several things working together to make the top end seem sharp while the whole presentation seems dizzying. And then there's that treble spike with some devices used with the Modis via USB.

Maybe after trying the optical output, try the HD650 but don't sell the HD600 yet. If the HD650 (and optical out) don't fix the issue, try something like a Violectric V280 with a DAC module on the HD650 and HD600. If it's a bit much in the other direction then return the HD650 and keep the HD600. If you do the HM5 pads then try it with both headphones.

 

[Monsterzero]

Heres two different reviews of a high end DAC where both members admit to being unable to hear any differences in DACs,that is until the bumped the budget significantly.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lampizator-amber-iii-impressions.913521/page-2#post-15284731
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lampizator-amber-iii-impressions.913521/page-2#post-15303685

I am not in this camp whatsoever. I have been able to tell a very distinct difference in sound between all of the DACs ive owned,but as you can see not everyone can hear it,so take from these examples what you will.