[ProjectDenz]

Yea I shot them an email earlier today. They've had the impressions for like 3 weeks as I was lucky enough to hand in the impressions the day they were shipping them out and shipping doesn't take long through UMAus. Last update 2 weeks ago was that they were sitting in que at the lab.

 

[svyr]

Yea I shot them an email earlier today. They've had the impressions for like 3 weeks as I was lucky enough to hand in the impressions the day they were shipping them out and shipping doesn't take long through UMAus. Last update 2 weeks ago was that they were sitting in que at the lab.

well, I'd like to think their turnaround has improved. It used to be very quicky (3-4 weeks total, and if memory served me right that included sending my impressions in for my base SM3v1 reshell), but my last order with the SM3x8 was appalling (over xmas-ny-half of feb). 8 driver universal isn't an easy thing to do, but we did see other similar delays with standard orders as well.

My last experience with CIEM.com and Stephen was markedly cheaper and better service wise. Although maybe I did get semi-pref treatment

 

[Zenova]

Quote:

well, I'd like to think their turnaround has improved. It used to be very quicky (3-4 weeks total), but my last order with the SM3x8 was appalling (over xmas-ny-half of feb). 8 driver universal isn't an easy thing to, but we did see other similar delays with standard orders as well.

just out of curiosity mate, how did you convince UM to give you custom tuning for your SM3x8? I thought they didn't offer custom tuning

 

[svyr]

just out of curiosity mate, how did you convince UM to give you custom tuning for your SM3x8? I thought they didn't offer custom tuning

I don't think they do anymore (At some point you could even send them some drivers and ask for their usual Xover to be used and they'd do it (there's a guy who has a 10 driver ciem from them here lol). I recently got one of those 'home brew ones' (3 driver, 3 way xover) http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/599818 ). You could ask Matt about custom tuning though. That was awfully nice of Matt to see that one through. And he's still getting my to try the new demo mold before I get a refit (the large universal mold used for SM3x8 didn't fit me at all), despite me going with CIEM.com with my last 2 orders (and Matt letting me try Aero and mage when I had problems with my orders for a few weeks over my eeerrr nearly 12 month experience with Sm3, Sm3x6 and 8 ciem and universals with UM).

I'm semi sure if there are grounds that you'd hate the end product and you're getting an expensive driver upgrade, UM won't say no, but don't quote me on that. (say if you're paying close to what Mage or miracle or merlin cost anyway, and it it's technically possible)

 

[svyr]

ps http://www.head-fi.org/t/443197/unique-melody-remold-appreciation-and-impressions-thread/2970#post_8180971 UMLab kinda do custom tune for people if they really ask . (I'm sure there are other recent examples). Not sure how recent that one is though and what dealer was used. (e.g. Stephen said UM won't do a UE700 reshell + driver tuning a-la mage to me not long before that poster posted his one)

 

[tranhieu]

Personally I wouldn't go for custom tuning. I don't know how UM proceed orders of that kind but unless the designer actually hear the new iem himself (ie. making another sample custom with that new xo) there's no guarantee that the sound sig will meet your expectations.
 
Btw if there's any UM rep tracking this thread I would like to raise the question about how UM custom tune the iem? Do you guys actually make a sample for the purpose of testing or just simply look at graphs (fr, csd, impedance, phase etc.)?

 

[Evilcalyptic]

Raaggh been waiting 4 weeks for my reshells since sending impressions now and no update except they got them.

to be honest i just got mine back today and it took about a month and a half

 

[svyr]

Personally I wouldn't go for custom tuning. I don't know how UM proceed orders of that kind but unless the designer actually hear the new iem himself (ie. making another sample custom with that new xo) there's no guarantee that the sound sig will meet your expectations.

Btw if there's any UM rep tracking this thread I would like to raise the question about how UM custom tune the iem? Do you guys actually make a sample for the purpose of testing or just simply look at graphs (fr, csd, impedance, phase etc.)?

Matt and Stephen generally keep an eye on the thread,so maybe they'll chip in.

as for custom tuning:
I thought in a lot of cases, especially if you asked your ciem to be tuned similar to an existing model or a variation on 'um house sound' (although they probably won't want to do that), they'd use the existing xover used in one of their lineup models (drivers permitting).

I've also had times when I was told UM couldn't do what I asked either because bass will bleed into lower mids or as a limitation of the bass end drivers. (and judging by the end result from sm3x6 and 8, I'm glad they stopped me there since those don't really need more bass)

ps not sure any iem designers look at phase. e.g. the se535 phase chart on innerfidelity is pretty interesting

 

[piotrus-g]

Quote:

ps not sure any iem designers look at phase. e.g. the se535 phase chart on innerfidelity is pretty interesting

I believe that most of them do. As phase is crucial for proper x-o.
 
When your new UM-3ways arrive take a look on the inside. You'll find that tweeter is wired in reversed polarisation which suggest matching phases of drivers to avoid phase shifts.
 

 

[tranhieu]

Quote:

I believe that most of them do. As phase is crucial for proper x-o.
 
When your new UM-3ways arrive take a look on the inside. You'll find that tweeter is wired in reversed polarisation which suggest matching phases of drivers to avoid phase shifts.
 

Yep, to me impedance and phase are 2 crucial parts I pay attention to the most when it comes to xo designing and transducer matching. Not to mention that trivial things like how drivers are placed inside the shell and tubing diameter also play quite an important role here as well, all together help tailor the final sound signature. That's why other companies like UE or Westone or JH don't offer this kind of service since it takes a great deal of time and efforts to tune a good/great sounding pair of iems.
 
I'm not bashing UM's service here by any means, just wanna share my thoughts on this topic.

 

[svyr]

I believe that most of them do. As phase is crucial for proper x-o.

When your new UM-3ways arrive take a look on the inside. You'll find that tweeter is wired in reversed polarisation which suggest matching phases of drivers to avoid phase shifts.

I'm not saying UM doesn't try to match it (especially in absolute terms - as in wiring each driver the right polarity). What I'm saying is what degree of phase shift are they trying to avoid from the xover/multiple drivers itself? and

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UltimateEarUE700.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ShureSE535.pdf

Unless I'm misreading the charts for phase and impedance - it sure looks interesting. (60 deg shift in some places and varying by 10-60 degrees across the FR)

Yep, to me impedance and phase are 2 crucial parts I pay attention to the most when it comes to xo designing and transducer matching. Not to mention that trivial things like how drivers are placed inside the shell and tubing diameter also play quite an important role here as well, all together help tailor the final sound signature. That's why other companies like UE or Westone or JH don't offer this kind of service since it takes a great deal of time and efforts to tune a good/great sounding pair of iems.

eeeeh see above for UE.... I really don't know if many people can hear across FR specific phase shifts. It seems not everyone can even hear reversed polarity.


I'm sure we can hear 'prominent' tubing diamater issues or see the effect on the other measurements in similar charts, or filter issues BUT (if they're pronounced):


I can't really hear phase issues on blind testing as long as they're symmetrical between the two channels (did some on the http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php site, so I can't really comment on that. )

I haven't tried taking a track or tones and applying an effect of gradually shifting phase where it might be easier to hear it .

I have a sneaking suspicion the impedance/phase graphs for the 4 way xover on my SM3x8 would look even 'more interesting'



>I'm not bashing UM's service here by any means, just wanna share my thoughts on this topic.

well, let me put it this way: I've had a problem before with the way the original reshell of SM3 sounded, and if you can describe the problem to UM, they'll fix it and take it on board for future reshells/designs. If you're with a local dealer it won't cost you much (not that $50 shipping to china via courier is expensive anyway). Just the time.

 

[ProjectDenz]

Well it seems they are done and they will be sending the back from the lab in 6 days time. Should probably get them in 2 weeks. The anticipation begins.

 

[tranhieu]

Quote:

I'm not saying UM doesn't try to match it (especially in absolute terms - as in wiring each driver the right polarity). What I'm saying is what degree of phase shift are they trying to avoid from the xover/multiple drivers itself?

 
It's not that they are trying to avoid, but more like making use of the phase shift to tune the iem more accurately, to get a better grip of the final sound signature.
 
 
Quote:

eeeeh see above for UE.... I really don't know if many people can hear across FR specific phase shifts. It seems not everyone can even hear reversed polarity.
I'm sure we can hear 'prominent' tubing diamater issues or see the effect on the other measurements in similar charts, or filter issues BUT (if they're pronounced):
I can't really hear phase issues on blind testing as long as they're symmetrical between the two channels (did some on the http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php site, so I can't really comment on that. )

I haven't looked at that site carefully, but one thing we need to take into account here is that balanced armatures' behaviors are very random, in the sense that inverting phase doesn't mean having only phase inverted (I'm not very good at EEE so someone might need to correct me here). That's why keeping their impedance variation under control is another critical factor as I mentioned earlier. And if you ask me if people can actually hear the difference, yes, we can. The DTEC's phase inverting effect is not that huge compared to TWFK's but it's audible.
 
And while we are at it (I might get warned here for going off topic), changing tubing's diameter gives more pronounced effect than varying its length. It's no rocket science here, I'm sure you read about wavelength and its relation to diffraction and stuff in your highschool years (provided you took physics).

 

[Zenova]

Quote:

Well it seems they are done and they will be sending the back from the lab in 6 days time. Should probably get them in 2 weeks. The anticipation begins.

Same here. Sent an email earlier today and they said the same thing to me. Hopefully it arrives in melbourne next week

 

[svyr]

It's not that they are trying to avoid, but more like making use of the phase shift to tune the iem more accurately, to get a better grip of the final sound signature.

 

I haven't looked at that site carefully, but one thing we need to take into account here is that balanced armatures' behaviors are very random, in the sense that inverting phase doesn't mean having only phase inverted (I'm not very good at EEE so someone might need to correct me here). That's why keeping their impedance variation under control is another critical factor as I mentioned earlier. And if you ask me if people can actually hear the difference, yes, we can. The DTEC's phase inverting effect is not that huge compared to TWFK's but it's audible.

one phase? 'better grip on the final sound signature?'?

eeeer sure Tyll's site shows phase swings and impedance swings across the FR.

well, if anyone has a link properly explaining phase shifts and impedance swings in audio as applied to xovers and or BAs that actually explain it properly, I'd like a read. I still have no idea what the difference you're trying to explain is to the impedance and phase swings on Tyll's charts. Other than that perhaps it's best we move the discussion to audio sci forum.


>And if you ask me if people can actually hear the difference, yes, we can.

No, I specifically asked you if you can hear the difference on a blind test not side by side imagining or reading into it or interpreting DTEC or TWFK FR differences as phase. Sorry. (i.e. with dynamic driver headphones, or stax, playing phase shifted audio)