unfair competition
Mar 20, 2006 at 8:47 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

rickcr42

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http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showA...leID=183700857

on the "damned if i do,damned if i don't" path of commerce is the Godzilla of the electronics market-China.

to not use them to outsource parts or even products means you can not compete in price with the competition.To use them means more often than not your product will be copied verbatum (hell you gave them the plans !!!!!) then sold in the same market in direct competition but with no middleman so cheaper.

again tough to compete and sell product.

They have no rules and feel no desire to follow any sembelnce of international fair play or fair trade so is it any wonder we see so many headphone amps that are cheaper shipped directly to your home from China for less than the actual price of the parts inside if you even thought about DIY ?

Where does it end ? How do you stop such unfair trade ?

Quit being so damn greedy and trying to shave a buck just to get what you want when you want it.Support the fair players,those who have to play by a set of rules in their own country that makes direct competition totally impossible when the competition has ZERO rules binding them.

Stop pandering to the crooks just because you can save a dime or two and get your cheap "ripped off' goods which is no different than buying steaks out of the back of a station wagon.You KNOW these steaks are stolen goods but you buy anyway because it is a bargain and why in this county both the crook and the buyer get charged and do jail time.No market for stolen goods,no sale,no theft because only an idiot would steal for no reason

When sales STOP DEAD they will come to the table and try to become part of the international community rather than just being takers.The daily "new amp from china" posts with all the lovely pictures from every angle always makes me wince because I KNOW anyone trying to compete is toast and they did nothing wrong other than try to make an honest product for an honest price

Opinion only,mine
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Mar 20, 2006 at 9:40 PM Post #3 of 18

Gravitas

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Remember when the US lead the television sales industry? ..me either. But apparently they did long before I was born. Our car industry is going downhill as well.

I remember reading "Rising Sun" by Michael Crichton (mostly fiction mixed with some fact...his typical style) where Japan vs USA business is compared. To the Japanese, business is war. Sometimes underhanded strategies are used, but it's all part of the battle. Where the typical US company will think of profits 2 or 3 years down the road, many Japanese are thinking in terms of 15 to 20 years. This way, they can charge the bare minimum for their products (or even take a loss in profit) in order to gain a bigger share of the market in the future and drive other companies out of business completely. It also doesn't help that successful US companies will often allow themselves to be bought out by foreign ones.

I'm no economics expert, but it's obvious that cheap labor, the rising demand for cheaper and better electronics, and America's lack of resources in either department is going to make it even tougher for us in the future.

So how do we fix it? Buy American, that's how!! ...but who wants a Ford? I don't.
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 9:58 PM Post #4 of 18

SennFan

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Quote:

When sales STOP DEAD they will come to the table


Problem is, economically speaking there is no indication of this happening anytime soon. China has the resources (labor), so they make the rules. Sad but true flip side of the proverbial international commerce coin.

Quote:

So how do we fix it? Buy American, that's how!! ...but who wants a Ford? I don't.


We can't even come close to acheiving the economies of scale/scope of China.
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 10:05 PM Post #5 of 18

rickcr42

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Quote:

Remember when the US lead the television sales industry?


remember the TV repair man ?

All connected.Goods were once made to last and if something went "sideways" to be repaired because it was an investment and not considered disposable goods.

I had an ancient RCA 25 inch console TV for maybe 20 years that I eventually gave to someone in need and they too had it for a few years before also making a gift of it to someone in need.as far as i know that S.O.B. is still in service and it was made in the 70's
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All wood cabinet,actual modules for each function so you could repair just the one thing instead of gunning the whole shooting match into the trash,and was in fact FURNITURE !

Now I have a bland looking 42 inch monitor that I had to buy a cabinet for just so it does not look industrial and if it ever goes south i KNOW it is time to replace and not repair.Cheap goods made at a low ball price are no bargain when they need to be constantly replaced and the old one time purchase lasted a lifetime
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Mar 20, 2006 at 10:18 PM Post #7 of 18

rickcr42

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Quote:

Problem is, economically speaking there is no indication of this happening anytime soon. China has the resources (labor), so they make the rules. Sad but true flip side of the proverbial international commerce coin.


Not true.their entire economy is based on foreign trade and if no one off shore buys in there will not be enough actual hard currency in china as a closed market to kee the economy afloat.

Do you think the actual chinese worker is part of the loop ? That this person is reaping the benefits ?

eventually yes but only if the products sell offshore bringing in the actual loot that keeps the economy liquid.


So I beleive the "don't buy the products" if ever took place in any real numbers WOULD cause change....noty that it will happen.Just check the "amplifiers" forum here then extrapolate the the rest of the world
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Mar 20, 2006 at 10:45 PM Post #8 of 18

Welly Wu

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Now you guys know why I buy American high fidelity products at new prices from authorized dealers. When I get my USPS job, I will save up and buy an American car to replace my old 1998 Toyota Camry too. Go into your bookstore and read all of the business books and magazines that cover the "China syndrome." You would not believe how much it means a difference to be buying all American goods and services right now.
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 11:08 PM Post #10 of 18

SennFan

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Not true.their entire economy is based on foreign trade and if no one off shore buys in there will not be enough actual hard currency in china as a closed market to kee the economy afloat.


Obviously...but there is no indication of something like this occuring anytime soon as I said. A lot of Americans mainly shop at Wal Mart and Target. Where do you think their products come from for their prices to be so low? I don't think people would shop there anymore if we put an end to our off shore buying of Chinese products. Why would they? There would be almost no way to produce the same amount of products here in the US for the same cost which would in turn translate to their low cost leader pricing. American workers want benefits and 401k's and the like and that's fine. In turn, they aren't going to give up cetain luxuries and emplyment rights they've become accustomed to just to buy American. We are thinking about the present and slightly into the future, whereas the Chinese are thinking into the next century. The 20th century was ours and the 21st century will be their's at this rate and the wheels have already been set into motion.

Quote:

Do you think the actual chinese worker is part of the loop ? That this person is reaping the benefits?


During the Industrial Revolution, did the average worker reap the rewards? No! Has the West reaped them in the not-so-distant past? Yes! The Chinese economy is in its infancy, remember this. They are beginning the process that we completed so long ago and the workers are willing to do what it takes to gain international influence. They suffered at the hands of backwards leadership throughout most of the 20th century and are only now beginning to enter the international stage by competing using their main core/distinctive competency...labor.

Quote:

eventually yes but only if the products sell offshore bringing in the actual loot that keeps the economy liquid.


This isn't just about the United States. Even though we are one of their major clients, so are many other countries who have become assimilated into the Wal-Mart consumer culture. There is an emerging middle class in China and Japan. Many Chinese ex-pats here in the States and other countires send a lot of their earnings back to their home country of China in order to proliferate its economy. In the mean time, they're earnings aren't being plowed back into their host country.
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 11:25 PM Post #11 of 18

rickcr42

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Yep, let's all just be like the RIAA and pretend it's still 1960.


meaning what ?

If you want to converse with adults on an adult topic that has serious implications to everyone at least have the courtesy to make a clear point either pro or con.

thanks

rickmonster supremus reximus
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 11:41 PM Post #12 of 18

braillediver

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A question?

If China is screwing their people with their closed markets why would we emulate their behavior if it's wrong?


You compete with intelligence and American Entrepreneurial Skills. Who wants to build CD players or TV’s when they sell for $39? That’s after they’re delivered half way around the world.

There was an article about fast turn around for textiles. It takes 4-6 months to get clothing from China and they are outdated when they arrive- So retailers miss the market window.

So the new thing is doing fast production runs of higher priced items in the USA where the delivery time is measured in weeks not months. The workers make more because of the higher level skills required for fast turn over- it’s a win win situation.


Work Smarter not Harder.

Mitch
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 11:51 PM Post #13 of 18

rickcr42

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Quote:

If China is screwing their people with their closed markets why would we emulate their behavior if it's wrong?


there is a difference between closed trade and rewarding unfair trade practises and when there are international norms that everyone else follows you do not reward the outlaw nation that follow NO laws and in fact recognises no patents,no rights,no intellectual property,nothing.

Is this any different than counterfeiting currency ? and if not how long would any nation stand by knowing it was happening and still trade with that nation ?
 
Mar 20, 2006 at 11:56 PM Post #14 of 18

LFF

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CookieFactory
Yep, let's all just be like the RIAA and pretend it's still 1960.



LOL!
 

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