Um... (30Gb iPod Photo)

[bangraman]

I've just traded for this, burned it in a bit and I'm fairly certain it sounds a bit worse than both the 3G and the 20Gb I had before. We're more in iAudio X5 territory (All through the 010's, I ought to add).


I'll keep you updated.

 

[mjg]

been listening to my 60 gig photo with new e4's...

i think it sounds great. Though, i havent heard my 3rd gen in awhile.

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman I've just traded for this, burned it in a bit and I'm fairly certain it sounds a bit worse than both the 3G and the 20Gb I had before. We're more in iAudio X5 territory (All through the 010's, I ought to add). I'll keep you updated.

Strange (but certainly possible). Through Headphone or Line Out? The DAC might be equal (or even better) but the amp section a bit worse...

I was yesterday in Spain and I could have done a comparation as I have there my 3rd Gen Ipod (the 60 Photo goes with me). Too late! My UE10s are a good phones to spot these things (Although in a quiet environment your 010s are far better for it)

Yes. Keep us updated please. Cheers,

 

[Spad]

When problems with the photos were first mentioned, I did a direct comparison of my 60 with the other generations (other than the first) and found no discernible difference at all. Given the other improvements, I think Apple finally got it right with the 4G. I just hope the upcoming models don't take a backward step as I feel the 2G to 3G transition did.

 

[bangraman]

How do you test? When I test, I match volumes as precisely as possible using a mixer's VU meter or RMAA, whichever is expedient, then use an audio switch with measured identical cables to transition between players mid-track. This tends to remove subjectivity and 'I want that player to be better' tendencies. The only undesirable variable after this is the sonic flavour, which I've trained myself to listen past.


Yesterday was the first volume-matched test between a Photo and other players that I've done. The last volume-matched test I did was with the 3G and 4G (mono) and a variety of players. And remember guys, this is with a 70 ohm phone.


I wish I'd kept those iPods now... but I honestly didn't think I'd need them anymore. I'm almost certain that I heard a far more pronounced difference with the older iPods and the X5 than I'm hearing with the 30Gb Photo and the X5.I didn't have much time to devote to it this time, and this time around it wasn't good to continue because I was very surprised. I hope to do a more detailed listening test sometime next week.

 

[Spad]

I simply match the volumes as close as possible, load the same program material, and listen with the same 'phones. If more elaborate procedures are required to determine which is "best," I consider them to be essentially equal.

I've noticed that you and I respond quite differently to some gear, so I'm not surprised that we differ in this case. For example I noticed that you feel the DT880 most closely matches the detail of the ER4. I dearly love my DT880, but to my ear the SA5K far exceeds the DT880 in this area. Since I'm sure we're both experienced enough to know what we hear and honest enough to accurately state what we believe to be true, I assume there is simply a marked difference in our hearing acuity.

Since I'm considerably older, I'll simply defer to you as the "newer model."

 

[bangraman]

Variations in quality assessment are significantly affected by volume settings, so these days I don't do comparisons without some sort of assisted matching. There's also a psychological bent in many cases towards a new or a favoured player (especially prevalent in cases where there is a break in the audition*) and I developed the test method to eliminate these factors as much as possible, so that I can say with reasonable confidence that y sounds better than x.


[size=xx-small]*This can't be avoided for headphones... but not compensating for output levels between headphones of different impedances / efficiencies are another affecting factor.[/size]


I believe in relying on my ears, but I also acknowledge that you do have to put whatever youre comparing on a level playing field. It is the latter which undoubtedly causes me the most trouble and effort.

 

[Spad]

You're points are certainly true enough, and were even forty-odd years ago when I first got serious about audio. In fact, I even remember a similar discussion with Julian Hirsch sometime around the mid-70s.

My point is that if differences aren't easily discernible they're likely not enough to be concerned about.

I assume your point is that for you they are easily heard. I take your point.

Perhaps I've simply been blessed with inferior but entirely adequate hearing.

 

[bangraman]

An ear-dangling contest... I like it

My point actually is that when you do listen in a less controlled way, then personal preferences and other unrelated things come in to mess up the mix, however independent you think you are (and I've always thought I was very independent). I set up this test a while back to just test out this hypothesis, and I've run the said test with sources which I've heard major differences before when I've run an uncontrolled test. I have done the same since then, mixing uncontrolled with controlled. The level of difference I've heard sometimes in the uncontrolled test which turned out not to be there in the controlled test are interesting. On the other hand if there is actally a difference in this type of listening then it's all the more worth noting.


I'm using the MDR-SA5000 today to compare the two after just the volume matching, without an audio switch. The SA5000 is relatively speaking something of a fart cannon and combined with their electrical characteristics make the bass fall-off of the iPod a practical non-issue... although the X5, having a flatter response even with these advantages granted the iPod still generates more low bass, but not enough to colour comparisons too much.


What really concerns me about the Photo in comparison to the X5 is that the notes seem to stand out less from the background, if I can put it like that. And yet the iPod does not suffer from hiss, at least not to any extent over the X5. Basically, the sound of the X5 has slightly more presence in the presented soundstage. The problem is not in the lows... it's across the whole frequency range and certainly easily heard in the mids.


I could not say this sounds in any way "bad", but this is not what I was hearing with previous iPods. Before, I could actually say without any reservation "this is better" when I ran the X5 comparison. Now I can't.

 

[Spad]

Perhaps it's just me but when you say, as I think you also said in response to Vertigo1's SA5K review, "The SA5000 is relatively speaking something of a fart cannon" what exactly are you attempting to convey? These scientific terms are sometimes lost on us lesser folk

I think the best predictor of one's response to the SA5K is what one is conditioned to before trying them. For example, if you like the presentation of the K1000, ER4, and others of that ilk, you are more likely to be taken with the SA5000. OTOH, if you are firmly in the HD6X0 camp you may well find the change too drastic.

Fortunately, the rubric "audiophile" is rather roomy and easily accommodates us all.

 

[bangraman]

These days I only use the (now borrowed, just looking after this pair until the HE90's turn up) O2's while listening on the PC. But I can go from the Qualia 010 to the O2 while appreciating each phone's relative merits. And believe me, phones don't get any more different than those.


A Fart Cannon, a term I learned here seems to be from my experience a phone that is bloated in the mid-bass to the extent that it covers sonic information in other bands due to the decay effect. It is indeed a good way of describing it, and a high-end Fart Cannon is the best way I can put the SA5000. The problem may be that I am not used to any headphone. I term that as an asset though.

 

[bangraman]

So, after that off-topic bit of ear-dangling, I've put in a pictorial format the impression I get of the relative sound quality of the players I've tested.


Then (pre-current iPod):

Now:

 

[Spad]

I've got a houseful of Macs, so I really haven't investigated (or commented on) the other players. But, given the integration of the Mac and iPod, it would take a major flaw in the iPod to dislodge it for me.

I'm not an absolutist in most things, actually. For example, my favorite headphone was never the one that sounded best, but rather the one that offered what I felt was the best combination of sound, comfort and convenience. Before the SA5K, my fav was the DT880 despite preferring the sound of the K1000. And before the release of the 4G iPod, I preferred the 2G even though I also had a 3G.

 

[wolfen68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman So, after that off-topic bit of ear-dangling, I've put in a pictorial format the impression I get of the relative sound quality of the players I've tested. Then (pre-current iPod): Now:

Maybe you've acclimated to the X5, explaining why it now seems closer to the new ipod? I wouldn't be surprised if you got an older ipod in again and found that the X5 seems closer as it did with the new unit (meaning the new and older ipods sound the same).

 

[Otophonus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spad I've got a houseful of Macs, so I really haven't investigated (or commented on) the other players. But, given the integration of the Mac and iPod, it would take a major flaw in the iPod to dislodge it for me. I'm not an absolutist in most things, actually. For example, my favorite headphone was never the one that sounded best, but rather the one that offered what I felt was the best combination of sound, comfort and convenience. Before the SA5K, my fav was the DT880 despite preferring the sound of the K1000. And before the release of the 4G iPod, I preferred the 2G even though I also had a 3G.

I have used mac for many years, everything in my life is Mac. X5 works as a removable hard drive and you can drag and drop songs, pictures etc.. Not a big hastle at all. I have 2nd gen ipod and just because, i would not compromise on sound, i switched to X5 . I don't regret my decision at all.
My 2 cents