Ultrasone Proline 750 Vs Sennheiser HD600: A Comparative Review

[pbirkett]

Interesting review. I used to own the PL2500s, which are reportedly quite similar, and I ended up buying a pair of HD600 to compliment them.

However, for me, in my system, the HD600 ended replacing the Prolines, as they were simply better in every respect to my ears. Brighter, more detailed, faster, punchier, and just more fun to listen to, as well as being more comfortable. The PL2500 did beat them in the "soundstaging" department, though.

There were one or two albums in my collection which sounded just fine on the Proline, but I felt a lot of them sounded dull, something which I thought would pass with burn in, but it just didnt. They seemed to have very recessed mids, and were very coloured, lending speech an artificial quality that, in the end, became impossible to ignore.

Although the soundstaging was better, I just felt the HD600 to be the much better all rounder, but I am more than prepared to admit there might be some synergy going on [or lack of it with the PL2500].

 

[Akabeth]

Great write-up Covenant

Thanks to you, I know I have a better understanding of the HD600 than before.

I have one question. At first, did you notice any bloated mid-bass when you put them on?

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akabeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have one question. At first, did you notice any bloated mid-bass when you put them on?

Referring to the HD600 or the Pro750? I bought the HD600 some years ago, so I dont really remember how they changed with burn in, and of course the rest of my system was quite different back then. I did run them in for a good 20hrs or so before I started listening to them though. So, no, I dont recall any mid-bass anomalies.

The Pro750's were another matter. All sorts of strange things happened to them throughout burn in. I thought they sounded like crap at first listen, with wierd bass resonance and an etched, artifical, metallic tonality. They continued to evolve in stages up to the point where they are now, including actually getting worse at around the 130hr mark, as I remarked on in the Ultrasone thread. They probably still have some changes in store as I move towards 200hrs, but their balance restored itself by 150hrs and the whole presentation came into focus.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, for me, in my system, the HD600 ended replacing the Prolines, as they were simply better in every respect to my ears. Brighter, more detailed, faster, punchier, and just more fun to listen to, as well as being more comfortable. The PL2500 did beat them in the "soundstaging" department, though.

This is curious, because if there's one domain where I clearly think the Pro750 is superior to the HD600 it is in punch, dynamics, and speed. Is your HD600 the "new" version, by chance?

I havent had the chance to test the claimed difference between the "old" and "new" HD600, but mine is the old version with black silk, so maybe this could account for our differences in oppinion.

Synergy as you say may play a factor as well, the Pico seems to mate very well with these cans, preserving their neutrality whilst not compromising their dynamics. Or it could just be the joy of newness having a psychoacoustic effect, as I find that the Pro750 is making me rediscover alot of my music, and I'm sure the HD600 did the same for you if you were used to the PL2500s

 

[RedSky0]

Very nice review, looking to check them (the Prolines that is) out sometime and this has been very helpful in that respect

 

[tfarney]

Excellent review, thanks. But if one subscribes to the conventional wisdom about amps (and I don't know....) around here, you would expect completely different results when comparing the 40 ohm Ultrasones to the 300 ohm Senns through an amp more suited to the needs and sensitivity of the Senns.

Tim

 

[pataburd]

I agree that the PL750 create an almost transcendent intimacy, especially with female vocals. In the long run--even though I have since sold both my PL750 and HD600--I preferred the Ultrasones for the better part of the time.

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ive also been interested in ultrasones for a long time. Was there ever a hands down conclusion on the 780 vs pro 750 debate?

I'm not sure about that but the 750 wins hands down for me.

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZephyrSapphire /img/forum/go_quote.gif because Ultrasone said it was just a makeover and the sound of the PROline and the PRO are no different?

You could be totally right, but I don't think it's an open and shut case (bad pun, sorry)! Think with me on this -- and I bet there is a lot of old stock out there since Ultrasone orphaned their former U.S. distributor, so it is a not unimportant question.

OK, what Ultrasone actually said on their web site is that the drivers etc. did not change -- only the padding and headband. But that does not mean it is a cosmetic-only change! It does not mean the SQ is not (maybe slightly, maybe inaudibly) different -- depending on your head, your ears, the fit.

If the padding changes, then the seal changes AND -- this is often overlooked (well anyway I overlooked it in another thread a while back!) -- the resonance properties of the chamber changes. This is why the sound of any closed headphone is altered when you press the cups in with your palms -- and you see people do that all the time.

I may be chasing phantoms, and if there is an SQ difference, it might be inaudible. But until I can A/B Proline vs PRO I can't know.

It is worth noting that Ultrasone has never answered my emails (either Germany or the new U.S. branch -- the old Ultrasone US independent distributor would have answered immediately!), or called me back (I left a phone message). Maybe they dismiss me as a nut case 'cause I keep asking this question. But compare this behavior to Beyerdynamic, where two product managers have had email dialogs with me -- well Beyer Germany, anyway -- Beyer US is as bad as Ultrasone (no answers to emails).

 

[Contrastique]

Strange they mention changing the padding...the rep of Ultrasone over here at the Netherlands said the earpads did not change. He said that when I asked for new pads for my Prolines. (I still have to buy them though so haven't tried them to make sure myself).
I also had a new headband put on my Prolines as my version is one of the first ones which has the flakey headband. I got a newer Proline -version which is supposed to be the same as with the Pro-version.
And as far as I heard the changes are only cosmetically and not qua sound.

 

[yepyep_]

Thanks for the review.

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Strange they mention changing the padding...the rep of Ultrasone over here at the Netherlands said the earpads did not change. He said that when I asked for new pads for my Prolines. (I still have to buy them though so haven't tried them to make sure myself). I also had a new headband put on my Prolines as my version is one of the first ones which has the flakey headband. I got a newer Proline -version which is supposed to be the same as with the Pro-version. And as far as I heard the changes are only cosmetically and not qua sound.

Well, this was on the Ultrasone US web site -- I have a screen shot:

"Updated for 2008, the PRO 750 now features thicker earpads and headband pad, brushed aluminum nameplate on the earcups and a nylon hardcase to protect your headphones on the go."

We are getting two different stories! Anyone from Ultrasone lurking??

 

[Elluzion]

the 750's are awesome. I have owned them and the DT770's, and they blow the 770s out of the water, they are very detailed, hard hitting headphones. I think i'll try some Sens 600's in the future..

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is curious, because if there's one domain where I clearly think the Pro750 is superior to the HD600 it is in punch, dynamics, and speed. Is your HD600 the "new" version, by chance? I havent had the chance to test the claimed difference between the "old" and "new" HD600, but mine is the old version with black silk, so maybe this could account for our differences in oppinion. Synergy as you say may play a factor as well, the Pico seems to mate very well with these cans, preserving their neutrality whilst not compromising their dynamics. Or it could just be the joy of newness having a psychoacoustic effect, as I find that the Pro750 is making me rediscover alot of my music, and I'm sure the HD600 did the same for you if you were used to the PL2500s

i agree...the prolines are easily the fastest/dynamic headphones i've ever heard, and i've never seen anyone refer to a sennheiser hd6x0 as fast unless it's in balanced topology.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if one subscribes to the conventional wisdom about amps (and I don't know....) around here, you would expect completely different results when comparing the 40 ohm Ultrasones to the 300 ohm Senns through an amp more suited to the needs and sensitivity of the Senns. Tim

The Pico actually has quite a bit of output power, and it was a design goal by Justin from the start that it have the drive to handle basically any headphone (ignoring the absolute extremes like K1000 and 16-ohm IEMs).

Quoting Justin:

Quote:

The max output voltage for the Pico is about 8V Max output current is 250mA (.25A). power = voltage * current, so that would be up to 2 watts. With a 300 ohm headphone, the power is limited to 1/5W by voltage because at the max 8V output, only 26mA of current is being used (8V = .026A * 300) This is why I spec'ed the max output voltage and max output current separately in the Pico manual. 1/2W is a realistic estimate of max power without the chip getting too hot

With that sort of voltage/amperage at its disposal the Pico shouldnt have any trouble driving either of my two cans.

Quote:

It is worth noting that Ultrasone has never answered my emails (either Germany or the new U.S. branch -- the old Ultrasone US independent distributor would have answered immediately!), or called me back (I left a phone message).

I really hate that sort of attitude. Good customer service doesnt cost all that much, and it immediately repays itself in strong customer loyalty and word of mouth, especially in a community like this. I've noticed that Ultrasone has recently upgraded its sponsorship of Head-Fi to premium, so maybe they'll be opening a premium forum soon where we can raise these sorts of issues.

Quote:

i agree...the prolines are easily the fastest/dynamic headphones i've ever heard, and i've never seen anyone refer to a sennheiser hd6x0 as fast unless it's in balanced topology.

I would still say the SA5000 to be the faster headphone, but the PL750 takes second place IMO. But both of them are noticably faster, especially on transient response than my HD600. They handle complex passages better too, giving instruments more of a sense of their own defined space.