[tjy00]

I must repeat that I did not listen to the Live with any pre-conceived notions of its sonics at all (apart from a Facebook comment from Warren P. Chi along the lines of, "They do what the Tia Fourte's do and more!") But, I can confirm that them and the ME are more different than they are alike. Just wait 'til you hear it.

Wow..Tia fourte must be terrible given the reviews for UE live so far...
Back to track, UE live has been designed for stage musician rather than audiophiles which was emphasized in their marketing. For stage musicians, i am not so sure if a big soundstage, super detail retrieval or perfect separation will be their top priority when using IEM for their performance. When compared with current hybrids like legend x, tia trio it certainly sounds "bloated" not as technically proficient in a sense. But UE live does have a smooth, organic and full bodied vocals that I can listen for a long time without fatigue and I am sure a stage musician would probably value for long shows. The timbre and tonality is accurate as well for instruments and vocals alike, well except for cymbals which sometimes felt to bright. I was fortunate to be one of the first few to listen the UE live (or unfortunate cos its not burnt in) and it did give me one of the most memorable impression from all the recent flagship IEMs i have listened to.

 

[Deezel177]

Wow..Tia fourte must be terrible given the reviews for UE live so far...
Back to track, UE live has been designed for stage musician rather than audiophiles which was emphasized in their marketing. For stage musicians, i am not so sure if a big soundstage, super detail retrieval or perfect separation will be their top priority when using IEM for their performance. When compared with current hybrids like legend x, tia trio it certainly sounds "bloated" not as technically proficient in a sense. But UE live does have a smooth, organic and full bodied vocals that I can listen for a long time without fatigue and I am sure a stage musician would probably value for long shows. The timbre and tonality is accurate as well for instruments and vocals alike, well except for cymbals which sometimes felt to bright. I was fortunate to be one of the first few to listen the UE live (or unfortunate cos its not burnt in) and it did give me one of the most memorable impression from all the recent flagship IEMs i have listened to.

I get the pitch and - again - I'm not criticising the Live for its soundstage, detail retrieval or separation. Two of my top 10 CIEMs are the Empire Ears Phantom and the Warbler Prelude; not particularly known for detail retrieval or clarity. My qualms with the Live are in its odd tuning and colouration. Its decision to have a heavily energetic mid-bass, a dense centre-midrange and an oddly-coloured treble (I believe it's a 5kHz dip, an 8kHz rise and linear 'til drop-off past 10kHz) made the resulting signature - in my opinion - too full and thump-y in general, too laid-back up-top for lower volumes and too strident at higher volumes. If I may ask, what tips and source did you use? It could explain our differing impressions.

 

[soullinker20]

given it is for a stage musician and I'm not a musician, for me I just find it "fun" enough for everything in my library. The mid bass hump for me has subsided a bit and gives me the right or more punch/slam. I'm not listening to it critically on my tracks but I do enjoy every track coz of the DD punch. I do like the tuning and the coherence of the DD to the rest of the sound. Still on the fence and waiting if burn in could possibly reduce the sibilance for me.

 

[tjy00]

I get the pitch and - again - I'm not criticising the Live for its soundstage, detail retrieval or separation. Two of my top 10 CIEMs are the Empire Ears Phantom and the Warbler Prelude; not particularly known for detail retrieval or clarity. My qualms with the Live are in its odd tuning and colouration. Its decision to have a heavily energetic mid-bass, a dense centre-midrange and an oddly-coloured treble (I believe it's a 5kHz dip, an 8kHz rise and linear 'til drop-off past 10kHz) made the resulting signature - in my opinion - too full and thump-y in general, too laid-back up-top for lower volumes and too strident at higher volumes. If I may ask, what tips and source did you use? It could explain our differing impressions.

I was using normal silicone tips and my source a mojo to my phone. But again, different ear fit and signature preferences might contribute to our impressions as well.

 

[Deezel177]

I was using normal silicone tips and my source a mojo to my phone. But again, different ear fit and signature preferences might contribute to our impressions as well.

Of course, it's very possible that I'm far more sensitive to the LIVE's peaks and/or bumps than other are. There's a lot of variety out there when it comes to silicone tips. If they were white in colour, it's most likely Final Audio tips, which is the same one I tried them in. Spiral Dots to me helped remedy the peak, but it was even more bass-y compared to the FA.

 

[soullinker20]

the demo loaned to me has final audio design tips.. I don't know if this is the closest to the custom version but I manage to get a perfect seal with it. So far, the peak is still there and bothersome to me. While I also thought the mid bass hump helps in covering the peaks a bit so it wasn't as painful like my experience with the 3rd gen 18+, and these have less spark compared to 18+

 

[Wyville]

the demo loaned to me has final audio design tips.. I don't know if this is the closest to the custom version but I manage to get a perfect seal with it. So far, the peak is still there and bothersome to me. While I also thought the mid bass hump helps in covering the peaks a bit so it wasn't as painful like my experience with the 3rd gen 18+, but these have less spark compared to 18+

Have you tried changing the tips? Because those could be a factor with the peak. I find that the Final tips, while improving clarity a little, also introduce a little extra energy in the treble and that does not always work well.

 

[soullinker20]

Have you tried changing the tips? Because those could be a factor with the peak. I find that the Final tips, while improving clarity a little, also introduce a little extra energy in the treble and that does not always work well.

Yes. I tried my Sony hybrids but made the sibilance worst. Used my Jh tips, same result and also my recently bought Final Audio eartips at Zep but it ate the highs too much. this tips are much more effective on my Jh iems(even more 8kHz peak) and sony EX1000(6kHz peak) but not on the UE Live.

 

[HalfBakedPotato]

Well, this is turning out to be quite the thread. So... views so far -

1. Its not an audiophile piece

2. Its a piece for onstage monitoring - guess, I'd be the ideal candidate for checking that then... unfortunately it looks like that I won't be able to test that without taking a leap of faith. However... I'm not prepared to do that, knowing that the Roxanne and 12t already do an amazing job in that department. Hmm... What to do. The sibilance talk does make me a bit nervous though - as that is my primary problem with the Roxanne.

 

[soullinker20]

Well, this is turning out to be quite the thread. So... views so far -

1. Its not an audiophile piece


2. Its a piece for onstage monitoring - guess, I'd be the ideal candidate for checking that then... unfortunately it looks like that I won't be able to test that without taking a leap of faith. However... I'm not prepared to do that, knowing that the Roxanne and 12t already do an amazing job in that department. Hmm... What to do. The sibilance talk does make me a bit nervous though - as that is my primary problem with the Roxanne.

I think everything you said is subjective my friend

Please audition it. About the sibilance, it still depends. As in my case it is, but for others it may not and this is base on my experience. So no worries.

 

[twister6]

the demo loaned to me has final audio design tips.. I don't know if this is the closest to the custom version but I manage to get a perfect seal with it. So far, the peak is still there and bothersome to me. While I also thought the mid bass hump helps in covering the peaks a bit so it wasn't as painful like my experience with the 3rd gen 18+, and these have less spark compared to 18+

If I'm not mistaken, so far all the tips you tried were silicone. Why not go for Comply? I can't offer any specific suggestion due to CIEM, but typically Foamies help to tame down the treble, though at expense of boosting the bass. But again, you never know until you try it. Also, consider Symbio hybrid tips.

I do hear 8k peak in LIVE, and there is an audible accentuation of ssss, but even with some poorly recorded tracks it's quite tolerable, not shimmering. The other day, I spend about half an hour with these in my ears, and didn't find them fatigue. Now, everybody have their tolerance threshold and it varies, so this is a subjective opinion.

Here is another update, just got a prototype of Linum cable with a balanced 2.5mm plug (they are trying different ones now). Using SP1000 SS as a source and going between balanced (higher power) vs 3.5mm output (the same cable with ultra short 3.5mm adapter) - mids are a little more revealing, tighter, with a sharper definition of notes. Too early to draw a conclusion, though it does feel now like a faint layer of veil is lifted. Could be due to additional power, could be due to a difference between SP1000 BAL vs SE outputs. I have that cable on a burn in (either if you believe in it or not, plus DD of Live can always benefit from another 100hrs of playback). So, will revisit it in a few days, to try with other DAPs and balanced outputs. Will be curious how it scales up with WM1Z as well. Perhaps, going balanced with LIVE will tip the scale more in audiophile favor

 

[Deezel177]

If I'm not mistaken, so far all the tips you tried were silicone. Why not go for Comply? I can't offer any specific suggestion due to CIEM, but typically Foamies help to tame down the treble, though at expense of boosting the bass. But again, you never know until you try it. Also, consider Symbio hybrid tips.

I do hear 8k peak in LIVE, and there is an audible accentuation of ssss, but even with some poorly recorded tracks it's quite tolerable, not shimmering. The other day, I spend about half an hour with these in my ears, and didn't find them fatigue. Now, everybody have their tolerance threshold and it varies, so this is a subjective opinion.

Here is another update, just got a prototype of Linum cable with a balanced 2.5mm plug (they are trying different ones now). Using SP1000 SS as a source and going between balanced (higher power) vs 3.5mm output (the same cable with ultra short 3.5mm adapter) - mids are a little more revealing, tighter, with a sharper definition of notes. Too early to draw a conclusion, though it does feel now like a faint layer of veil is lifted. Could be due to additional power, could be due to a difference between SP1000 BAL vs SE outputs. I have that cable on a burn in (either if you believe in it or not, plus DD of Live can always benefit from another 100hrs of playback). So, will revisit it in a few days, to try with other DAPs and balanced outputs. Will be curious how it scales up with WM1Z as well. Perhaps, going balanced with LIVE will tip the scale more in audiophile favor

I used silicone tips (specifically Final Audio’s and Spiral Dots) because they usually lead to the most custom-like sound in a universal. I’d agree that Comply’s would theoretically settle the treble peak (though it would probably boost the low-end as well), but evaluations taken from it would strictly only apply to the universal, unless the custom was actually tuned to sound that way. I’m not usually sensitive to 8kHz peaks (unless they’re huge) and my problem lies more within the contrast between 5kHz and 8kHz, so the foamies might actually help mend the universal experience at least. I’ll give it a try with MS’s demo tomorrow.

Funny you should mention balanced, Calvin just told me about a LIVE’s cable he reterminated to 4.4mm balanced according to a customer’s request. He said the change in output made a huge difference to the LIVE’s performance, so you may indeed be right. The cable has unfortunately been shipped to the customer, so it’s not there for me to try. But, never say never.

 

[crinacle]

In case anyone needs a reference, raw IEC60318-4 measurements, <0.5ohm output impedance:

Standard disclaimers apply, available back in my thread. 9k-ish peak is resonance from the coupler and may or may not be at the same location as your own ears depending on anatomy.

It doesn't measure badly on FR and it's really nothing out of the ordinary. But what you can't see on the graph is how fuzzy and bloomy the Live sounds subjectively.

 

[soullinker20]

If I'm not mistaken, so far all the tips you tried were silicone. Why not go for Comply? I can't offer any specific suggestion due to CIEM, but typically Foamies help to tame down the treble, though at expense of boosting the bass. But again, you never know until you try it. Also, consider Symbio hybrid tips.

I do hear 8k peak in LIVE, and there is an audible accentuation of ssss, but even with some poorly recorded tracks it's quite tolerable, not shimmering. The other day, I spend about half an hour with these in my ears, and didn't find them fatigue. Now, everybody have their tolerance threshold and it varies, so this is a subjective opinion.

Here is another update, just got a prototype of Linum cable with a balanced 2.5mm plug (they are trying different ones now). Using SP1000 SS as a source and going between balanced (higher power) vs 3.5mm output (the same cable with ultra short 3.5mm adapter) - mids are a little more revealing, tighter, with a sharper definition of notes. Too early to draw a conclusion, though it does feel now like a faint layer of veil is lifted. Could be due to additional power, could be due to a difference between SP1000 BAL vs SE outputs. I have that cable on a burn in (either if you believe in it or not, plus DD of Live can always benefit from another 100hrs of playback). So, will revisit it in a few days, to try with other DAPs and balanced outputs. Will be curious how it scales up with WM1Z as well. Perhaps, going balanced with LIVE will tip the scale more in audiophile favor

Hi, I didn't want to use complys coz of my ear wax. It lasts like 3-4 days then I dont get a full seal anymore. I have 100 hrs already on them. Just the 8k peak that's still piercing to me. If I can't really get over these issues, I might reconsider LX again and audition them for the 3rd time

Thank You

 

[Deezel177]

Hey Alex, I’m currently listening to the LIVE with Mandarin SymbioES hybrid eartips and I must say, they make a significant improvement. Comparatively, the low-end doesn’t bleed as much into the image, whilst maintaining the energy of the impact. This is especially palpable when listening to the beginning of Michael Jackson’s Black or White, when the father bangs on the son’s door in the prologue/intro. The bangs feel immensely realistic without the cloyness or congestion that I heard previously. I’m only able to get a shallow fit because of how large these tips are, but this ends up aiding the LIVE’s soundstage. It now has a clear sense of left-right separation with above-average width. I wish the midrange was still more upper-mid-present, but that’s an inherent trait in the LIVE’s tuning, so the tips won’t do anything to mend that.

The LIVE is also massively less odd in the treble. It maintains the same texture and vibrance of an 8kHz peak, but benefits from a more coherent 5kHz range; not as sudden in the dip. Articulation is more solid, notes sound more linear and the stridence becomes less obvious. There are still audible detriments to the peak, though. Hi-hats become the loudest high-frequency instrument, so vocals can sometimes get overshadowed by them. On the plus side, this improved linearity presents them with a more natural tone. Coming back to the stage, improved treble linearity and extension create a more stable and spherical stage, as well as more headroom - my two biggest gripes in my initial impressions. My lasting complaints would probably be the fact that the 8kHz peak still introduces a touch of dryness in vocals and - again - that lack of beauty in the upper-mids as a result of a squarely neutral tone.

I don’t know whether or not my expectations were severely lowered after my initial auditions, but I came away from this demo pretty decently impressed. Of course, it’s still not the most audiophile-inclined piece out there - not by a country mile. But, this is the first time when the LIVE’s pitch actually made sense to me: Delivering exciting - yet calculated - energy within an engaging, contrast-y and carefully detailed stage. I don’t know how this will translate to the custom, considering the tip material and the significantly shallower fit. But, as far as the universals are concerned, from now on, Mandarin tips are a prerequisite when auditioning the LIVE’s. They don’t neutralise all of its quirks, but they sure did get me thinking...