UE's and impedance relative to Ipods etc.

[John Reeves]

Hi,

It seems to be an accepted fact that certain DAP's have a lack of bass when low impedance 'phones are used. i.e. Ipod plus UE 10 Pros.

The Ety ER4P can be converted to an ER4s by simply adding impedance in line ie.the convertor cable.

I realise that the sound curve can be changed by adding impedance and that this may or may not be an improvement. The Porta Corda comes with an in line impedance plug for low impedance 'phones for example.

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned adding impedance to UE's or similar, and would be interested if they have, on the findings.

If not here is "Your task for the weekend, if you choose to accept it"


Regards

John

 

[Jmmmmm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves I am surprised that no-one has mentioned adding impedance to UE's or similar, and would be interested if they have, on the findings.

Brilliant idea

But it's been mentioned. Other people have said it, too, I'm sure, but I've said it a bunch. I've also been using a 75ohm adapter with my ipod ever since I got it. Well, I use it when I'm not using an amp, which is not too often anymore.

My findings? It does help the bass a couple db, but nothing earth shattering. Adding resistance also might take a bit off the high end of some headphones, though that's not too significant either.

I find that using an amp makes a far bigger difference.

 

[John Reeves]

Hi Jmmmm,

I should have been more specific, I meant UE's or other very low impedance IEM's being driven directly from a DAP without using an amp. The UE's have an extremely low impedance since they were originaly designed for use with a Shure belt pack. Adding an amp, in my case a Porta Corda 11, makes very little difference to the sound in this setup using a Rio karma due to their high efficiency.

I only have the Karma at the moment, my son's Zen Xtra having been sent back today to have the headphone jack fixed. The Karma does not seem to suffer from any bass deficiency with the UE's, but I'll give it a shot over the weekend with a 75 ohm adaptor I have and see what it sounds like.

My interest in this is because Rio have stopped production, so when my Karma claps out I'll need to replace it with another DAP and quite a few seem to suffer when driving a low impedance 'phone. I hate the idea of being forced to equalise to get an balanced sound. Yeah, I still use Naim amps on my speakers, so am probably brainwashed into this philosophy.LOL

Incidentaly, Creative Europe are happy to change my son's Zen Xtra FOC even though it is out of warranty.

Regards

John

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves Hi Jmmmm, I should have been more specific, I meant UE's or other very low impedance IEM's being driven directly from a DAP without using an amp. The UE's have an extremely low impedance since they were originaly designed for use with a Shure belt pack. Adding an amp, in my case a Porta Corda 11, makes very little difference to the sound in this setup using a Rio karma due to their high efficiency. I only have the Karma at the moment, my son's Zen Xtra having been sent back today to have the headphone jack fixed. The Karma does not seem to suffer from any bass deficiency with the UE's, but I'll give it a shot over the weekend with a 75 ohm adaptor I have and see what it sounds like. My interest in this is because Rio have stopped production, so when my Karma claps out I'll need to replace it with another DAP and quite a few seem to suffer when driving a low impedance 'phone. I hate the idea of being forced to equalise to get an balanced sound. Yeah, I still use Naim amps on my speakers, so am probably brainwashed into this philosophy.LOL Incidentaly, Creative Europe are happy to change my son's Zen Xtra FOC even though it is out of warranty. Regards John

Well I use my UE-10s with 3 gen and color ipod and don't hear much of a different from that to the SMv3. There is a little better bass and alittle more resolution. Again. This took me a few weeks to hear the difference.

I thought the issue with ipod was with headphones that were higher impedence. Like the Shure e5s. Then there was a big difference with the amp and without the amp. Also with Er4p and Um2s there was a noticible increase in sound quality, treble, detail, bass, attack. Across the board there were major gains using the SMv3. With UE-10 being 13.3 impedence and easy to drive there are almost no changes.

Anyways, I truly enjoy the ipod with UE-10s. Mike Diaz from Ulimate Ears, told me there wasn't hardly any difference between ipod and lineout and SMv3 using the UE-10. The difference was very marginal. very.. very.. I think that was his exact words.

The higher inpendence headphones.. the ipod can't drive them correctly so it takes alittle off the bass to drive them correctly.

edit..
The UE-10 using the jack out sound great. And this is what I use most of the time. there is though a maginal.. and I mean marginal increase when I use the SMv3 line out from ipod with UE-10s. This is to say, the treble gets alittle more detailed and bass's attack is alittle better. Because I am using the amp. But I don't notice that much of a difference and that is why I don't use the amp that often. I am not missing much. And then two things to have in yout pocket. The cost of having another unit isn't worth the %5 percent increase in sound quality.

 

[Jmmmmm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves Hi Jmmmm, I should have been more specific, I meant UE's or other very low impedance IEM's being driven directly from a DAP without using an amp. ... I only have the Karma at the moment, my son's Zen Xtra having been sent back today to have the headphone jack fixed. The Karma does not seem to suffer from any bass deficiency with the UE's, but I'll give it a shot over the weekend with a 75 ohm adaptor I have and see what it sounds like...

No, that's what I was referring to. I use the 75ohm adapter with my e4c's when I'm using the headphone out, instead of an amp. With an amp, it obviously isn't necessary. I never tried using a 75ohm adapter with my karma since I never felt the bass lacking from it. With the ipod, there is a noticeable difference, though.

 

[benjamind]

It's well known that many DAPs have trouble producing decent bass on low impedance phones (basically anything below about 20 ohms). UM2 and Super.Fi Pro would be okay with the iPod and they do have great synergy I'm told.

 

[random person]

The issue of pairing headphones with the current color Ipods is a bit more complex than in the past. The Ipod is known to be bass-shy, but in addition, the color versions are said to suffer from an audio defect which relates to the color/video capability. This defect is rendered far worse by low impedance phones. Indeed, many report that high impedance phones are the only things that cure the problem (which, BTW, has to do with a buzzing effect surrounding quiet piano notes and similar sounds.)

Now, it would appear that not every color Ipod has this problem. For example, mine does not -- with either the stock buds or my UE5cs, even at 21 ohms. But, mine are from a fresh Ipod patch, and I suspect that Apple may have quietly fixed the problem.

So, independent of your bass issue, if you do decide to buy an Ipod, take care to order your Ipod from a place that is return-friendly, with no restock fee, just in case you get a unit with the audio defect.

Now, as for the bass issue -- I imagine that relative to the Rio products that you might find the UE10Pro sounding a bit thin on the Ipod -- thin in the sense of bass-shy. You should probably test them out in a store, with and without an amp.

Mind you, I am happy with my UE5c pairing. Seems remarkably well-balanced with the Ipod in particular, without overpowering bass, and no audio distortion.

But yes, Ipods rule the world, clearly. Soon everyone will have one!

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, lots of food for thought.

regards

John