[ayatakakun]

I have old Dual 1225 I inerited from friend. It has been good to me for past 10 years. Although it still play music (most of the time) it's age is showing up in many places and looking at cost of replacement part, I thought it will be better to get brand new turntable.

I went to audition usual suspects. Rega P-1 and P-3. Long story short, I was not exactly impressed. They both created nice clean sound. Much better than my Dual. But, instument did not sound "right" to me. Piano did not sound like piano, brass did not sound like brass etc. With my Dual, I can hear a lot of distosions, especially at high notes, but, same time I hear instrament sounding like instrumant.

So guys, was I expecting too much from modern turntable? Maybe I am just not uses to "clean" sound from turntable. Do you have any other recommendations for turntable under $1000?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[joelongwood]

Your "distortion at high notes" with the Dual may be attributed more to a worn or incorrectly set-up cartridge/stylus assembly than to anything having to do with the turntable itself. I would check the stylus condition first. Being a vintage guy (literally and figuratively), I would recommend saving your money and obtaining a new cartridge and having someone clean and lubricate the old Dual. I have 3 Duals up and running (1209, 1228, and 1219) at the present time and, compared to the other TTs I'm using, the Duals exhibit a solidity and fullness to the sound that seems to elude many of the other TTs. A decent cartridge, and a good overhaul of the Dual should set you back between $200 and $300.....far less than the $1000 budget you stated.
I'm sure that you'll receive more than a few recommendations from others regarding newer turntables which will more than likely outperform the old Dual. But until you have it restored to its original functional condition, you'll never know how good a well designed idler wheel turntable can sound. And to these old ears, it's very good, indeed.
Oh and BTW ..............................Wecome to Head-Fi!

 

[ayatakakun]

Thank you for your advice Joelongwood. What you said makes whole a lot of sense. I guess after many years of reading Hi-Fi magazines, I was convinced I need new toy

. We all been there right?

Talking about new toy. Do you have recomendation for cartage? Right now, I have Oyster which I installed (maybe here is reason for distorsion) when I got table.

I am sure I am not first one to say this but,
THIS IS GERAT SITE!!!!!!

Many thanks.

 

[scompton]

I have a 1219 that I got at an moving sale. The speed selector switch doesn't go to 78 and the idle wheel doesn't contact the motor pulley. I'm guessing that these are related problems. Everything else appears to be working. Looking at the mechanism under the switch, I've decided that this isn't a job I want to tackle. Searching the internet I found The Turntable Factory as a company that specifically repairs Dual turntables (and others). Does anyone have any experience with them?

 

[joelongwood]

Ayatakakun, I'm partial to Shure cartridges. Right now I'm using Shure V15III, Shure M91ED and Shure M97XE. The first two are no longer made, but the M97XE is available from Amazon for around $70.......what I consider a bargain for the sound you get.

Scompton, as i understand it, your lever problem is quite common among older Duals, particularly the 1219. It's most likely due to hardened grease which has to be cleaned out and then re-lubed with the proper stuff. Unfortunately, the founder of the Turntable Factory, Joel Thorner, passed away last year, and I'm not sure of the status of the company at this time. But I can highly recommend the fellow who I purchased a reconditioned 1219 from awhile ago, Bill, from this site:
FixMyDual.com - Your Source For Dual Repair and Accessories
He's a great guy to deal with and he really knows Dual turntables.
Good luck.

 

[memepool]

Dual turntables are very capable and have always offered a lot for relatively little outlay. The cheapest decent Dual you can buy today is the CS-505 which is around 500 Euro so that will give you some indication of the amount you'll need to spend to improve on what you've got.
The Rega's you heard are popular entry level audiophile tables but as you say can sound a bit tonally bland, which is due to the corners cut on the tonearm and the rudimentary plinth.
To find something modern which is a big step up from what you have and hear what this tonearm design is capable of, you really need to audition a Gyro SE with Tecnoarm from J.A.Michell Engineering Precision Turntables.
These are pretty expensive in the USA currently because of the weak dollar so you could also try to hear a VPI Scout which is a bit less grippy in the bass but has a lovely musical flow which is wonderfully enticing.

If you don't want to spend this kind of money on a new turntable then take joelongwood's advice and upgrade your cart. The vintage Shure V15III or IV are well worth tracking down on ebay as Shure stopped making them but you can still get a really good stylus from a Japanese specialist called Jico SAS Phonograph Stylus for about 100USD. This is also available for the lesser Shures like the M-75, M-92, M-95 which you can pick up for peanuts on ebay.
If you want something simpler try a new Ortofon 2M red or blue series from somewhere like Needle Doctor

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelongwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Scompton, as i understand it, your lever problem is quite common among older Duals, particularly the 1219. It's most likely due to hardened grease which has to be cleaned out and then re-lubed with the proper stuff. Unfortunately, the founder of the Turntable Factory, Joel Thorner, passed away last year, and I'm not sure of the status of the company at this time. But I can highly recommend the fellow who I purchased a reconditioned 1219 from awhile ago, Bill, from this site: FixMyDual.com - Your Source For Dual Repair and Accessories He's a great guy to deal with and he really knows Dual turntables. Good luck.

Is this a repair I can do myself? I do some home repair and carpentry, so I'm somewhat handy. Although, I've rarely worked on such small parts.

Edit: fixmydual's eBay auction had a link to The Dual-Reference Website.

That says the following which makes me think I'll try to fix this myself first, since I may not have to take things apart.

Quote:

My turntable is acting sluggish and I have to "help" it get started This is a classic case of lubrication dry out. What happens over time is that the original lubricants used in your turntable have dried out and hardened up. This causes parts to stick and not move as smoothly as they once did. To repair this you will need the service manual for your turntable and then will need to clean off all the old lubricants from the parts and then apply new ones. The best way to do this is to use Isopropyl Alcohol and Q-Tips. It's a tedious job, but it's one that most anyone can do provided they go slowly. We once had a Dual 1229Q that wouldn't even spin up. It just sat there and chirped like a bird. We cleaned it up and applied new lubricants and the turntable performed as good as new. Some of the lubricants that were originally used in Dual turntables are either NLA (no longer available) or are available only in large quantities. We have a list of suitable replacements on this page.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelongwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ayatakakun, I'm partial to Shure cartridges. Right now I'm using Shure V15III, Shure M91ED and Shure M97XE. The first two are no longer made, but the M97XE is available from Amazon for around $70.......what I consider a bargain for the sound you get. Scompton, as i understand it, your lever problem is quite common among older Duals, particularly the 1219. It's most likely due to hardened grease which has to be cleaned out and then re-lubed with the proper stuff. Unfortunately, the founder of the Turntable Factory, Joel Thorner, passed away last year, and I'm not sure of the status of the company at this time. But I can highly recommend the fellow who I purchased a reconditioned 1219 from awhile ago, Bill, from this site: FixMyDual.com - Your Source For Dual Repair and Accessories He's a great guy to deal with and he really knows Dual turntables. Good luck.

The Shure M97xE is a good choice and the Audio Technica AT120E is a good alternative.I think the Shure has the more traditional analog sound and the Audio Technica has a brighter more fun factor.I like the AT120E a bit better but it may be a bit more tonearm sensitive.

 

[rederanged]

The Shure and AT 120 are good cartridges. Another one you may want to look at is the LP Gear AT95SA:

LP Gear: LP Gear AT95SA phono cartridge

I ran the AT95E on which it is based on a Dual 1257 and enjoyed the tonal balance, but the tracking, especially on inner grooves, left something to be desired. The AT95SA has a Shibata stylus, which should track much better. Looks like a great deal for <$100.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is this a repair I can do myself? I do some home repair and carpentry, so I'm somewhat handy. Although, I've rarely worked on such small parts. Edit: fixmydual's eBay auction had a link to The Dual-Reference Website. That says the following which makes me think I'll try to fix this myself first, since I may not have to take things apart.

I've read numerous posts over at Audiokarma.org that one should not attempt a restoration of the older Duals without knowing exactly what they are doing. That said, with service manual in hand, and with patience, I don't see why you should not attempt a good cleaning of the old dried out grease. I've also read of the importance of using the proper lubrication, although I don't know what that would be. I'm sure a search of the internet will yield the correct answers. Good luck and let us know how your project turns out.

 

[jonoliew]

Ahaha. too late. I tried to 'service' my turntable.. remove old grease, disintegrating foam etc... RIP old rotel..

I thought the Regas were excellent turntables. Esp the P3 for the price.. Have you seen the NAD C555? Its a p2 rebranded. Not sure if there's much difference; would be nice if anyone knew more info about it.

Other than that, tried looking at music hall? Anyone done a reference to the dual/rega/music hall? lol so many choices under 1000bucks.. so confusing isnt it?

 

[gyrodec]

As a gyrodec owner I can tell you memopool is right, a Gyrodec SE would be a big step up from your Dual - also outside your budget even second hand. The best bet in the reasonable price category is the Projekt line. They get very good reviews and the owners seem to be relentless in their pursuit of quality (for the price). The Music Hall range is made by Projekt with slightly different designs and also rate very hightly. You could also get a Rega 3 second hand with the excellent RB250 arm. All of these either come with a good cart or would leave dudget to get one. People love their duals, and for good reasons, but these newer designs will get way more details off the record grooves - if thats what you want.