Turntable cartridge leads

[axiom]

I am trying to find out if my turntable needle/cartridge needs replacing (likely) or if it's just the wiring. Looking at a cartridge from the back (wiring side) what are the 4 leads (L, R, G)?

1 2
3 4

Also, any suggestions on how to align or calibrate the pressure of the needle?

 

[nikongod]

the pinouts depend on the cartridge. theres only 4 ways to do it, but everyone does it differently. GENERALLY ground is on top or bottom, and left and right are normal or reversed (pins on left are left, or pins on left are right...)

shure stylus force gauge. $25 or so, awesome!!!!!

 

[Artemio]

I also recommend the Shure force gauge, works great. You can also read a bit more into alignment here:

A Beginner's Guide to Cartridge Setup

and here:

Set Up a Turntable - Wired How-To Wiki

In my experience you only need the Shure gauge and a protractor for setup. Now, why do you believe they do need replacement? the lead probably don't, unless they are in really bad shape. Try using a magnifying glass (10x or better) to check the state of the needle, if you have none available a decent digital camera with macro would help you a bit though the magnifying lens is way better in my experience.

 

[axiom]

Thanks for the recommendations. The reason I think the needle may be bad is because the playback sounds very scratchy (but the record seems fine). Also, the left channel is entirely dead.

 

[nikongod]

groove damage often sounds scratchy. i have heard it on records that looked very good at the thrift store.

 

[axiom]

I will try a few more records and see if the scratchiness is a recurring problem. After posting I realized that I could just use a DMM to check where the connections were.

After doing that, lo and behold, the left signal channel wire is messed up (there is no conductivity between the cart end and the rca end).

I think the wires just go straight from the cart to the rca plugs. Is this correct?

Is there anything special I should know about rewiring turntables? What kind of wire should I use? Are there any resistors involved (I don't think there are, but I'm new to vinyl so what do I know

)?

TIA

 

[Bones13]

Yes, believe it or not, the phonograph is pretty low tech. The wires that plug into the back of the cartridge actually go un-altered to the end of the RCA plugs that are plugged into a phone input, or phone stage.

Actually, there are record players that have an included phono stage and can be connected to any available aux line input, but most do not.

The wires usually connect the cartridge to the tone arm wires, which go down the arm and to the inside of the box, or at least to the underside of the table, where they are soldered right to the ends of the coax cable making up the RCA cables. Some are direct connected, some involve some amount of circuit board, but not for anything other than connecting and grounding purposes, not alteration by electronics.

Of course you can search and find very nice and expensive re-wiring setups. I have avoided this so far.

I am playing with a really old Mitsubishi direct drive table that my Dad had while I was growing up. I did get a new cartridge, straighten the tone arm and repair the headshell, but otherwise no other reconstruction. It plays well, but I have only recently purchased some new records (I have all of his, but most are old and only meagerly maintained) I am trying to decide if the trouble of playing with the records themselves is worth it, over playing the same music via the computer. I feel to really do a better job than my digital stuff I will need to really get a nicer table, buy a bunch of records, get a good cleaning system..... And I am not sure that is worth it to ME at this point. But I am playing with it, and having some success, and some fun.

On the other hand, 2 of my 3 children really are into music, and are in total AWE of the thing, and that it plays music. One of them is really into the remix stuff, not that he will be doing that on my vintage player.

Have fun.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by axiom /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is there anything special I should know about rewiring turntables? What kind of wire should I use? Are there any resistors involved (I don't think there are, but I'm new to vinyl so what do I know )?

It depends on the design of the arm but normally you should remove this from the table and hopefully see the same small gauge leads coming out of the bottom end.
Then you should be able to simply solder new leads to the cartridge ends of the old ones and carefully pull them through.

The cheapest option for replacement wire is to use the innards of a CAT5 cable or the lead off an old mouse as this is very high quality copper.

Otherwise there are all sorts of audiophile rewiring kits you can buy from the likes of Incognito.

Also while your'e at it replace the tonarm cables, the ones that the internal wires are attached to, with microphone cables and some new phono plugs which you can get from somewhere like radioshack.

 

[axiom]

Thanks everyone for the help solving my turntable conundrum. It turned out that the rca output cords were the problem, not the tonearm wires. A good thing too, since the only way to replace the tonearm wires would be to attach the replacements to the old and pull them through (the tonearm isn't very easy to remove at all...)

After finishing the (easy) repair I realized I should have put in some female rca jacks to make it easier to change out the cabling if I needed to, but oh well

Here's a pic of the fixed area

That's my wonderfully advanced and expensive (

) MCS 6502 turntable on top, my Sherwood RX-4030R that is the phono stage and amplifier and on my head in my avatar pic are my DT880s. I do plan on upgrading my rig more...kind of embarrassing right now

. I guess you have to start somewhere, right?

 

[nikongod]

ACK! Separate the 2 channels and twist each pair TIGHTLY together. LITZ braiding is OK for some things, but s simple tightly twisted pair will work better for the leads of the turntable. If you can shield the wires, double bonus round to you. NAVSHIPS on ebay (i think) sells a decent silver-plated copper already made up in a twisted pair with a shield.

which sure is it? you can buy new stylus assy's for most shure carts on the web. even if they are not OEM build, they are better than nothing. Again, as a bonus point, some had upgrades later in production or can be upgraded with the stylus of a different cartridge. depending when the cart was made, this ranges from $20 to $lots.

next I would work a lot on getting the cartridge setup properly.

buy a protractor and scale if you have not yet.

The next purchase should be cleaning tools. A stylus brush and record sweeping brush are NOT optional.

 

[Artemio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif Next I would work a lot on getting the cartridge setup properly. buy a protractor and scale if you have not yet. The next purchase should be cleaning tools. A stylus brush and record sweeping brush are NOT optional.

On top f that, I'd recommend a record cleaning machine... I went for the manual KAB model, and it made a huge difference for me.. even with just released records just taken out of the wrap. Ther eis no other way to remove that dust that hides in the grooves.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemio /img/forum/go_quote.gif On top f that, I'd recommend a record cleaning machine... I went for the manual KAB model, and it made a huge difference for me.. even with just released records just taken out of the wrap. Ther eis no other way to remove that dust that hides in the grooves.

agreed, but 1 step at a time...

the least expensive machine i can think of still costs more than this chap's whole rig (not that there is anything wrong with an inexpensive rig.) a little lop-sided IMO. if he gets there, he gets there.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif ACK! Separate the 2 channels and twist each pair TIGHTLY together. LITZ braiding is OK for some things, but s simple tightly twisted pair will work better for the leads of the turntable. If you can shield the wires, double bonus round to you. NAVSHIPS on ebay (i think) sells a decent silver-plated copper already made up in a twisted pair with a shield.

Very good point. Although braided cables look the part, turntable leads are very prone to electromagnetic and acoustic feedback which was why I mentioned microphone leads above.

Belden, Klotz, Van Damme and Mogami cables are all industry standard but any old unbranded XLR cable from Radioshack will do nicely.

In fact I had exactly this problem recently with outlandishly priced Russ Andrews Kimber braided turntable interconnects. Removing the shielding and tightly braiding the cables,they claim, offers superior sonics but you have to use a modern low output moving coil cart as the more powerful magnets in vintage designs are too noisy as are HOMCs and MMs. Ho hum

Quote:

Originally Posted by axiom After finishing the (easy) repair I realized I should have put in some female rca jacks to make it easier to change out the cabling

Again although this is increasingly fashionable on some modern decks, the way you did it is actually better sonically for similar reasons to the feedback issues mentioned above, namely because the signal from the cart is so small keeping the number of breaks in the cable to a minimum is best practice.

 

[axiom]

Yes, I am very slowly upgrading my rig, but I don't think a record cleaner would be worth it at this point given the rig that I am using (perhaps later). Right now I'm a perpetual student working on my PhD in mathematics, so I don't have a lot of money...

My current stylus is a shure 3x which, to my understanding, is a conical stylus. This was one reason I was looking to upgrade. I've downloaded some stylus protractors off the web and I'm going to use one today to align the cartridge and I'm ordering a force gauge.

I'll look around online for some mogami microphone cabling and better rca plugs (these are from radioshack). Any suggestions on where to get the mogami cables?

 

[axiom]

And thanks for the heads up on the drawbacks of litz. I didn't even consider that it would affect a very low powered signal.

Also when grounding the shielded cable should I put the shield to the chassis ground or the ground on one side of the rca?