[plonter]

Are there differences between tubes types..? i mean, are some tubes types have more influence on the sound than others? Does their influence on sound depend on the amp also?

I am currently using a EF1 which uses a 12AU7 tube type. and while i am noticing some differences between tubes,they are pretty subtle...but still noticable enough.
I just wondered if some tube amps or tubes type can make the difference more significance? and if yes..what amps or tube types are we talking about here?
thanks!

 

[Skylab]

The amplifier, and perhaps more accurately the circuit, in which tubes are used absolutely makes a difference in how much different tubes will sound different, although in general different tubes will almost always have the same basic effect when compared to other tubes in the same amplifier.

Let me put this another way - if you compare an RCA Cleartop to a Mullard in Amp A, and then compare both tubes in Amp B, the same basic differences between the RCA and the Mullard will be evident, although the degree to which they are evident may vary.

However, you could listen to the RCA cleartop in Amp A, and then in Amp B, and find that the sound is quite different, due to the difference in the amplifiers and their circuits.

Further, I think the differences between two tubes can be quite subtle sometimes; other times it can be significant. It depends on the tube and the amp.

And finally, you are using a tube-SS hybrid amp - so the solid state output stage has an impact on the sound as well and that will be imprinted no matter what tubes you use. I liked the EF1, a lot, but it does not carry all the things I see as benefits of all-tube amps in full measure, as good as it is. That said, it drives a wide variety of headphones very well, and does offer some tube goodness

Hope that was helpful.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif The amplifier, and perhaps more accurately the circuit, in which tubes are used absolutely makes a difference in how much different tubes will sound different, although in general different tubes will almost always have the same basic effect when compared to other tubes in the same amplifier. Let me put this another way - if you compare an RCA Cleartop to a Mullard in Amp A, and then compare both tubes in Amp B, the same basic differences between the RCA and the Mullard will be evident, although the degree to which they are evident may vary. However, you could listen to the RCA cleartop in Amp A, and then in Amp B, and find that the sound is quite different, due to the difference in the amplifiers and their circuits. Further, I think the differences between two tubes can be quite subtle sometimes; other times it can be significant. It depends on the tube and the amp. And finally, you are using a tube-SS hybrid amp - so the solid state output stage has an impact on the sound as well and that will be imprinted no matter what tubes you use. I liked the EF1, a lot, but it does not carry all the things I see as benefits of all-tube amps in full measure, as good as it is. That said, it drives a wide variety of headphones very well, and does offer some tube goodness Hope that was helpful.

thanks skylab, it was helpful indeed. but what about different type of tubes?
i mean.. the EF1's 12AU7 against the EF2's 6J1 (or whatever they called...)
is one type has more influence on the sound than the other..?

by the way, i knew all pros and cons of the EF1 when i decided to get it. but i just thought of something, just tell me if i am right:
if i take a full tube amp and change only the gain tube (is that how the EF1's tube called?) than would it be similar to changing the tubes on the EF1?

considering that the output tubes in the full tube amp are remaning the same, is it equal to the opamp output of the EF1? sorry for my bad wording, hope you understand my question.

 

[Happy Camper]

Changing the gain tube will have the most impact on the sonic characteristics. Output tubes will add flavor too but not as noticeable as the gain tube. My caveat was going from the 6080 to the 5998. Nice difference in bass and wider soundstage.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Changing the gain tube will have the most impact on the sonic characteristics. Driver tubes will add flavor too but not as noticeable as the gain tube. My caveat was going from the 6080 to the 5998. Nice difference in bass and wider soundstage.

thanks for thte comment. what is the difference between gain tubes and driver tubes? are they supposed to do different functions? and what kind is in my EF1 hybrid? (driver,gain)

I assume that a full tube amp is using all the tube kinds..? can you explain please what is the "job"of each tube in the chain?

thanks!

 

[Happy Camper]

Your EF-1 uses a 12AU7 as a gain tube. Your output is being driven by a solid state amp.

The gain tube magnifies the signal and the output tube takes the place of the solid state amp that provides the voltage and current to the hp drivers.

Check out the tubes FAQ for some clarification.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your EF-1 uses a 12AU7 as a gain tube. Your output is being driven by a solid state amp. The gain tube magnifies the signal and the driver tube takes the place of the solid state amp that provides the voltage and current to the hp drivers. Check out the tubes FAQ for some clarification.

thanks you very much for the info.

so by using a gain tube on the EF1 it's influence on the sound should be pretty significant if i understood correctly?
and one more question..
the only difference between a full tube amp and a hybrid is the option to change the driver tube as well?
are most of the tuberollers change the driver tubes frequently as gain tubes? or maybe prefer to keep the driver tubes intact most of the time and only play with the gain tubes?
just from interest...thanks for all the comments!

 

[Skylab]

I have always heard "gain tube" and "driver tube" used to refer to the same application, and "power tube" to refer to what Happy Camper called the driver tube.

I think changing the gain tube impacts the sound more than changing the power tube, generally, yes. And as such, the EF1 experiences this same type of change, and in an all tube amp, changing the power tube would, generally, be less than the impact of changing 12AU7's in the EF1. But that is just a very general statement, and it varies a lot by amplifier. And some people feel that changing the power tube matters more, so it's all a matter of opinion

 

[morfic]

In a full tube amp i got used to subtle but easily distinguishable differences of tube, it was rather shocking to hear near no difference in a hybrid amp by the same manufacturer. doubting my ears i ran rmaa through the hybrid and it agreed with me i think.
so i have to agree, tubes and amps they are used in together make a big difference.
in the Little Dot I+ i find stock tube and opamp a nice combination. and tube rolling does not change the sound enough to invest into tubes.
on the Little Dot MkII on the other hand it's absolute fun to pull out the 6J1 and play until you drop....

hope this helps

Daniel

 

[morfic]

and changing the power tubes does nothing for me, btw

 

[morfic]

sorry for three posts, can't get to edit button.

i find the differences between tubes in the same family more subtle than between different families

like subtle within EF95, but biggere between EF95 and EF91