Tuberolling

[Costas]

A general query.

What is the philosophy behind tuberolling? Surely the designers of tube amps have designed them with specific tubes in mind to ensure optimal performance. Why then go and mess with this initial design?

It seems that certain tubes bring out the best in particular amplifiers. Why then don't the manufacturers use those specific tubes in the first place? When people are spending substantial $$$ on an amp and then having to upgrade tubes to get a better sound, I would have thought that the manufacturers would have got it "right" the first time.

Finally, if people are using tubes to contour the sound of their amps to a specific characteristic, why not save the expense and hassle and invest in a graphic equaliser instead

Just a thought...

 

[Ebonyks]

Equalizers have moral issues with some audiophiles. Some tubes have different sounds, some of them can accurately be re-created with different tubes. You can emulate warmness, but you truly can't create euphonic distortion with a equalizer. Besides, truly great NOS tubes have a transperancy unparalelled by any modern day production of tubes. The JJ tesla's are thought to be the best modern creation 6692's, but they are greatly dwarfed by some of the other tubes that i have. Eq's just don't have the magic of a truly great set of NOS tubes

 

[grancasa]

Quote:

Originally posted by Costas A general query. What is the philosophy behind tuberolling?

In a nutshell, different tubes make my MG Head sound better. That's why I enjoy trying out different ones. If you've got an amp that take 12AU7/5751 tubes, and you'd pay for shipping, I'd be happy to loan you some tubes that will dramatically demonstrate the differences tubes can make.

 

[Gallaine]

Part of the issue is the economics of making a product. This has been discussed in depth in another thread so I wont spend much time on it. Suffice it to say that a manufacturer is likely to choose parts that are currently available instead of the rare parts that he/she might or might not be able to get if and when the demand for the product increases to the point another run is required.

I don't know how many vacuum tube manufacturers exist today. But it is commonly believed that the better tubes were produced years ago in factories that either no longer exist or changed their processes. Now, if you were a manufacturer of tubed equipment would you include NOS tubes that may or may not be available in the quantities you need or tubes that you can get with a simple phone call and in "large" quantities?

The price point a designer/manufacturer is trying to achieve is also a factor. The MG Head costs $325 retail with inexpensive currently produced tubes. Premium tubes can cost as much as $200 a piece and are rarer than the doodoo bird! Using them as the standard would raise the cost of the MG Head to >$500 and possibly beyond the reach of the intended audience.

A tweaker/modifier/DIYer/tuberoller or whomever doesn't really have the same considerations. If you happen to find the only Telemullard 12s456a tube in existence then you are one luckly SOB. Tuberolling is alot like switching out interconnects. They don't really change the design of the circuit but many believe they can change the sound produced.

 

[Costas]

Thanks for your comments guys. I am in the market for a new amp having just sold my HA-1. I would like to try a tube amp this time around and have my sights set on the OTL32 due to be released.

I see years of frustration ahead of me as I try tube after tube in order to get "the sound" I am looking for... This prompted my initial question as to why the manufacturer doesn't put optimal tubes on their amps in the first place. From my perspective, I would be happy to pay the premium.

I guess half the fun is in the experimentation eh?

 

[Ebonyks]

Including rare NOS tubes would only significantly raise the value of them you realize. Remember, they're like land. Once they're gone, they're gone.

Now, 200 bucks for a set of tubes is a bit obessive, the only tubes that i can think of in that range which are acually attainable are the white label amprex tubes, many far rarer tubes exist for far greater prices.

Personally, i think manufactuers do it because they realize that doing so would very quickly drive up the costs of the tubes, and the amp overall. Besides, anyone who says that 200 dollar tubes are worth putting into a 350 dollar amp is a wee bit on the daft side, IMHO

 

[grancasa]

I bet the value of all my tubes, if sold here on Head-Fi, would run close to the price of my amp. But that's part of the fun in owning a tube amp; I get 10 different sounds out of my one amp.

 

[millerdog]

I agree. With SS you are basically stuck with the sound. With tubes at least you can alter the sound some to your liking.
I don't know about spending big bucks on the Tele ECC80Xs either, but I know that spending an extra ten or twenty on recommended tubes goes a long way. And yup, once they are gone, they are gone

I got more money in tubes than my Fisher amp cost me. The nice thing about tubes is that you can almost always get your money back.
md