Tube warmth and distortion and it's pros
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herbie12389

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Well now that you know that I am a purist and perhaps a bit biased (no pun intended)  this should be pretty simple for most people to grasp when dealing with circuitry. Anything you add in the audio chain slowly degrades sound. The EQ being one of the worst. Go ahead and look at most realllll high end audio big boy toys... No EQ The fact that the listener would have to go through readjusting everything the recording artist did to suit someones equipment when it falls short of portraying the original message... Shame sir if thats your answer. 
 
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bigshot

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Modern digital equalizers are audibly transparent. You're thinking of old analogue ones from the 1970s.

Tubes can degrade sound a lot more than a decent digital EQ can.
 
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herbie12389

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Lets go ahead and bring this thing back around and talk about tube distortion and all those fancy numbers you guys loveeee so much... 
 
 
Just kidding... no numbers... All that does is confuse your mind after months and months and years of pondering. I always asked myself why I loved the sound of that SE 300B even though when I look at it on paper... **** makes no sense... Distortion for days.... 
 
Boils down to the argument again that tubes provide a lil more magic to the music. Over all it makes it more exciting to listen too. Typically more dynamic, and has a lil extra meat to the bone. While solid state seems to be cold flat and hard. Plus way over the top reaching for things it was never meant to grab... thus the fatiguing of ears. 
 
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herbie12389

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Modern digital equalizers are audibly transparent. You're thinking of old analogue ones from the 1970s.

Tubes can degrade sound a lot more than a decent digital EQ can.
Its not degrading when its welcomed and tuned with other parts within the system. Cables, dacs, you name it. A car doesnt run with just putting gas in it. 
 
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esldude

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  Well now that you know that I am a purist and perhaps a bit biased (no pun intended)  this should be pretty simple for most people to grasp when dealing with circuitry. Anything you add in the audio chain slowly degrades sound. The EQ being one of the worst. Go ahead and look at most realllll high end audio big boy toys... No EQ The fact that the listener would have to go through readjusting everything the recording artist did to suit someones equipment when it falls short of portraying the original message... Shame sir if thats your answer. 

Which is more purist:  an excellent speaker with one fatal flaw, a several db peak a couple hundred hz wide at 1100 hz or the same speaker with one simple parametric EQ to flatten that peak and fix the response?
 
Listening to said speaker it is very obvious the latter sounds far more pure, correct and enjoyable.  You are ignoring that sometimes a little added circuitry can correct more than it degrades.  Not to mention when doing such things digitally you often incur no actual degradation at all only the benefits. 
 
The real big boys in high end audio use No EQ because it would hurt the bottom line.  Selling various alternative expensive solutions to an EQ problem is much more lucrative.  That is when they aren't selling solutions to things that aren't audible that is. 
 
You also failed to understand the point about EQ to a baseline.  You would not need to EQ every recording.  If all recordings adhered to the same baseline, you only need to EQ your home system to that same baseline once and you are golden.  And at the very least, using EQ to get as transparent and high fidelity as possible quite simply make it possible for you to get a better idea of what the recording itself is actually like. 
 
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esldude

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  Lets go ahead and bring this thing back around and talk about tube distortion and all those fancy numbers you guys loveeee so much... 
 
 
Just kidding... no numbers... All that does is confuse your mind after months and months and years of pondering. I always asked myself why I loved the sound of that SE 300B even though when I look at it on paper... **** makes no sense... Distortion for days.... 
 
Boils down to the argument again that tubes provide a lil more magic to the music. Over all it makes it more exciting to listen too. Typically more dynamic, and has a lil extra meat to the bone. While solid state seems to be cold flat and hard. Plus way over the top reaching for things it was never meant to grab... thus the fatiguing of ears. 

It is pretty simple.  Tubes are not transparent to the source signal in the case of a 300B SE.  SS can be.  So the difference you hear is a coloration.  One you apparently, like many other people, prefer to the accurate reproduction of the signal.  Nothing wrong with that as your goal is musical enjoyment.  Sometimes less accurate is more enjoyable.  Just don't confuse one for the other with the idea what you like or prefer is automatically highest fidelity.  Keep the ideas separate in your mind and things get a lot clearer.
 
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esldude

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  Its not degrading when its welcomed and tuned with other parts within the system. Cables, dacs, you name it. A car doesnt run with just putting gas in it. 

Good DACs need no tuning, ditto for cables.  Did you forget which forum you are posting in?
 
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herbie12389

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I used to have a pair of ESL quad 57... best Electro out. 
 
Trust me what I like and prefer is considered to be some of the best gear ever reviewed.... if that even means anything seeing as how most of the reviews are paid for... I would know this working for a company that builds its own amps.... some that have been reviewed very highly by Art Dudley... 
 
Analog man in a digital boys world... kids these days. 
 
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cjl

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  Well now that you know that I am a purist and perhaps a bit biased (no pun intended)  this should be pretty simple for most people to grasp when dealing with circuitry. Anything you add in the audio chain slowly degrades sound. The EQ being one of the worst. Go ahead and look at most realllll high end audio big boy toys... No EQ...
Which high end "big boy toys"? Pro audio where they care about the results, or high end audiophile nonsense, where appearance, uniqueness, and marketing matter more than the accuracy of the sound itself? I think you'll find that the former uses EQ all the time...
 
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herbie12389

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  Which high end "big boy toys"? Pro audio where they care about the results, or high end audiophile nonsense, where appearance, uniqueness, and marketing matter more than the accuracy of the sound itself? I think you'll find that the former uses EQ all the time...
.
 
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wakibaki

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  ...working at a audiophile shop...   ...most wealthy...   ...the best money can afford...   ...Seen it heard it. Plus...   ...all the big shows... Seen it heard it. 
 
Trust me, I'm an audio salesman.
 
w
 
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esldude

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Trust me, I'm an audio salesman.
 
w

Trust me, I'm a High End Audio salesman.
 
Fixed it for you wakibaki. 
 
PS Hope you are doing as well as possible with your health issues.  Take care friend.
 
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cjl

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Yep, that definitely falls into the latter category between my two options above. "Big Boy Toys" where they care more about sound fidelity and less about esoteric designs with funky appearances look more like this:
 
http://mixonline.com/mag/MonitorsOpener.gif
 
http://blog.mixonline.com/briefingroom/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ssl_duality_la-sound-gallery.JPG
 
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