Tube rolling
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scuttle

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The question, which you obviously didn't read was this..
"I've recently started looking at the sunrise 2 amp. And have seen mention of tube rolling. What is the science behind this. Does it make a difference to sound or is it as pointless as changing cables?
Cheers"
 
 
 
I answered that very specifically. If you don't like the answer, that's not my problem, but once again:
 
 
 
You reach the pointless-as-magic-cables level when you buy a tube amp. After that you're into "I'm concerned that my voodoo practioner may not be following FDA guidelines" territory.
 
That's not to say that you shouldn't practice voodoo - or tubedoo. But you've already gone outside scientific criteria when you do. (Basically, the spiel for tube amps is supposed to be that the distortions they produce make music sound better... To which to the scientific reply is "That's not what blind test's show" and the common sense one is "I want to hear what the musician played.")
 
Evidence eg
 
http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Cliche or not, certain tubes are of a better quality than others and therefore capable of amplifying the signal better than others (without unintended coloration or degradation of the original etc). Different tubes affect sound more/less than others. This is a fact.
 
Yes, certain tubes are less bad than others. No one ever said any differently. That you weren't able to understand the other more important points I and other people made is not our problem.
 
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post-9138583
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eddiek997

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Quote:
 
I answered that very specifically. If you don't like the answer, that's not my problem, but once again:
 
 
 
You reach the pointless-as-magic-cables level when you buy a tube amp. After that you're into "I'm concerned that my voodoo practioner may not be following FDA guidelines" territory.
 
That's not to say that you shouldn't practice voodoo - or tubedoo. But you've already gone outside scientific criteria when you do. (Basically, the spiel for tube amps is supposed to be that the distortions they produce make music sound better... To which to the scientific reply is "That's not what blind test's show" and the common sense one is "I want to hear what the musician played.")
 
Evidence eg
 
http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. I prefer tube amps for a few reasons...
1. I prefer the sound (subjective or not, I just do).
2. They look great.
3. 'cos I can.
4. I've actually enjoyed trying different tubes and finally settled on a setup that I like.
 
 
 
The OP was looking at a specific tube amp and considered rolling tubes but questioned the viability of it. 
If the OP buys the amp, listens and makes notes then swaps the tubes for others and compares again, I'll bet that he notices a difference. I'll bet ya two blind tests and a placebo that he notices a difference.
 
Go ahead, troll. Oh and do it in bold 'cos your angry that someone has a different opinion than you.
 
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post-9138772
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TheWuss

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Yes, what you just wrote is certainly extremely foolish. It is certainly impossible to say that EVERY ss amp in the world sounds better than every tube, or that a random ss amp will sound better than a random tube. But who, until now, would have thought these were useful assertions to make, rather than pathetic strawmen? The intelligent question (which you have completely failed to grasp with an awesome mastery of missing the astoundingly obvious) is whether a well designed tube amp can ever offer an advantage over a well design ss amp. To which the answer is easily no, because such are the physics and such are the results of literally thousands of blind test results.
your tone is unnecessarily condescending.  i did nothing to deserve this response from you.
it makes very sorry that i posted in the first place.
 
i offered the best of my wisdom on the matter, and now i sorely regret it.
 
in other words, i got trolled.
 
goodbye, scuttle.  i wish you all the best as you guard the bridge from all the billy goats that dare to cross.
 
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post-9138791
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scuttle

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. I prefer tube amps for a few reasons...
1. I prefer the sound (subjective or not, I just do).
 
I agree that you THINK that you prefer the sound. However, I doubt that you could distinguish it in a blind test. Yes, I do think that you are this gullible and suggestive. It's not flattering for you, but there you go.
 
4. I've actually enjoyed trying different tubes and finally settled on a setup that I like.
 
Yes, well: as people have said, there is a device called an equalizer. This lets you control the sound for each album and/or output device. There are also dsp systems - like the ones most PC players have or Cowon DAPs - that will do far more to the sound again, in a much more controlled fashion than the crude blundering of tube selection. Buying an unreliable over-priced amp because it offers an extremely crude way of doing an equalizer will do is NOT an example of smartness!

Go ahead, troll.
 
Disagreeing with you is not trolling. Grow up.
 
Oh and do it in bold 'cos your angry that someone has a different opinion than you.
 
I used bold to make it clear where I was quoting myself; I saved quote boxes for when I was quoting you. Really - is there anything that won't confuse you?
 
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eddiek997

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I used bold to make it clear where I was quoting myself; I saved quote boxes for when I was quoting you. Really - is there anything that won't confuse you?
 
Ok... you're right... I'm confused..
 
I'm confused as to whether your 'answers' have helped the OP make a decision on whether to buy the amp or not.
 
The OP's question was not the virtues of SS over Tube or vice versa but whether changing tube types in a tube amp will affect the sound output of the amp. You have not helped whatsoever. But, you are right.
 
Jiminy, The answer to your question is that YES, undeniably (sorry, no graphs to prove it) that Tube rolling has a very real effect on the output of an amp. As 'TheWuss' explained much more eloquently than I.
 
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scuttle

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Quote:
 
Ok... you're right... I'm confused..
 
I'm confused as to whether your 'answers' have helped the OP make a decision on whether to buy the amp or not.
 
You're confused over whether "This type of amplifier has no real benefits, other than to the bank balances of people who sell them to the gullible" will help some decide whether to buy a tube amp or not? Ok...
 
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eddiek997

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Quote:
 
You're confused over whether "This type of amplifier has no real benefits, other than to the bank balances of people who sell them to the gullible" will help some decide whether to buy a tube amp or not? Ok...

Ok. Good job.
 
Have a carrot.
 
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TheWuss

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hey, i have an idea  -  let's get scuttle started about some other topic.
 
take vinyl records, for example.
 
i think they sound better than digital.
 
okay.  discuss.  

 
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post-9139104
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scuttle

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hey, i have an idea  -  let's get scuttle started about some other topic.
 
take vinyl records, for example.
 
i think they sound better than digital.
 
Ok: the thing about trolling is it's only skilful if you're not too obvious about it...
 
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eddiek997

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Or it was so difficult to miss the point entirely.... as you did previously.
 
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post-9139672
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eddiek997

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Oooh. Good one.
 
Hows your beats?
 
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scuttle

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Oooh. Good one.
 
Hows your beats?
 
I appreciate your appreciation, but I'd appreciate a challenge more: you do know you just said the silliest possible thing? Because the sole argument you've been able to muster is "Lots of people think -" And lots of people - even more ! - think that beats are good headphones. Your argument - and I use that word in its lowest common denominator sense - was weak enough already without your adding hypocrisy.
 
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eddiek997

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Quote:
 
I appreciate your appreciation, but I'd appreciate a challenge more: you do know you just said the silliest possible thing? Because the sole argument you've been able to muster is "Lots of people think -" And lots of people - even more ! - think that beats are good headphones. Your argument - and I use that word in its lowest common denominator sense - was weak enough already without your adding hypocrisy.
Another good one... Have another carrot.
 
Lots of people think that beats are good headphones. Lots of people think that the Camry is a good car.
Personally, I drive a 911 (Model 997) and having experienced true quality can assure you that the Camry is junk for the money. So are the Beats.
 
I have absolutely no respect for your opinions nor your grammar. To that end, this will be my last reply in this thread having answered the OP's question, I have no inclination to continue this borefest of a "discussion" with you.
 
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FrankCooter

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Ignoring the noise in this thread, I'll try to answer the O.P..
 
As has been previously stated, NOS tubes were generally made to higher standards than contemporary manufacture. Sonic improvements resulting from substituting NOS for contemporary manufacture are usually related to the design and overall quality of the amp.  A single-ended class A zero feedback design will be much more responsive to tube rolling  than a four stage push-pull design with significant global feedback. Don't expect miracles in any case. Don't spend huge amounts of money on rare and exotic tube varieties. Tube rolling can make a difference in many amps, I do it myself, but far more important are the quality of the design and the surrounding components.
 
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