[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif choosing proper tubes,

This is half the fun and an incredible advantage to tune your system to your tastes. Try "swapping" mosfets for SS amps.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif tube longevity (or lack thereof),

Small signal tubes often used in headamps last FOR eVAR. SS devices have a finite lifespan as well eventually, and changing them out later is MUCH harder.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif tube price,

Buy tubed gear that uses tubes that are still in demand, in current production, and well-made, i.e. EL84/6pi14pi-EB, 12AX7/5751, etc.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif biasing,

With most headamps, you don't even have to bias them yourself, as most are auto-biasing. Even if you had to, it's very straight-forward.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif humming,

Not if you choose proper amp-headphone combo.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif microphonics,

Not a significant issue in headphone setups unlike speakers.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif heat,

Small tubes don't emit much more heat than class-A/near-class-A SS devices.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif warm up time...

Tubes reach optimal sound quality WAY faster than SS devices. Tubes will reach great sound within 30 min of turn-on. For SS amps, I would leave it on 24/7 for optimal SQ.
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif the list goes on. Is it really worth all the trouble for a noob?

Think of it this way. Would you recommend lesser music to somebody just b/c they are a noob at listening to music??

 

[maxxy]

Yes AV8TR, you are correct - the people in this forum are great

Too bad for me, where I reside (Israel) there are barely any of these Hi-Fi meetings. I solely rely on the opinions in this forum.

cotdt, could you recommend any tube amps that bode well with the DT880 (if you have listened to any)? What are these "single ended" tubes that you speak of?

More so, after what Hi-Finthen posted, I've been looking around at DACs. I am definately not the DIY person and will not be modding or upgrading. I currently have the EMU 0404 PCI - won't this suffice? Or will upgrading to something like a Beresford (I read that it's all hype?) or a Lite DAC-AH (unmodded/modded) really make things shine? Do note that I use a receiver as a headphone amp. It isn't really superb for the job.

I'm really not trying to stretch over $400 for the amp and perhaps $200 for a DAC. I still have to take into consideration shipping to Israel (costly).

Cheers!

 

[cotdt]

single-ended triodes are known to sound warm, intimate, have an expansive soundstage, holographic imaging, while maintaining extreme clarity and detail. they are very pleasing to the ear. most headphone tube amps are not SETs, though.

maxxy, I have heard the DT880, DT990, K701, Ultrasone 2500, Denon D2000, Koss UR40, Koss KSC35, and some lesser known headphones out of my Doge 6210, which is single-ended triode tube amp based on the EL84. It sounded amazing with all of them. Definate synergy. If you search, there is a long thread about this amp. It uses a transformer, so it can also drive low impedance headphones and also IEMs very well. The EL84 was the favorite tube of the Beatles, and supposedly the only way to hear the Beatles as they were meant to be heard was from this tube.

in constrast to triode, pentodes sound more like solid state amps. clean, but dry and sterile, often with treble emphasis. in fact, the Doge 6210 can be easily converted to become a pentode and when I did this, it lost its tube qualities, sounding like a certain $150 solid state amp.

another alternative is the singlepower amps, but they are more $$$. btw, a lot of tubes can last over 10000 hours, which is several years if you keep your amp on 5 hours a day.

I've heard the Darkvoice, which is also extremely good but the sound signature is that of a solid state amp.

 

[Scrith]

I went from an easy-to-use tube amp (Singlepower MPX3) to a monster of a solid-state amp (SFT Dynamight) and am very happy with my decision despite the replacement amp being more difficult to deal with than the older tube amp.

I found that tube amps were just unrealistic...kind of like rose-colored glasses, I guess. Yeah, they're all warm and fuzzy and all that, but the sound just didn't seem "right" to me. I tried 10-15 different kinds of tubes (including some very expensive/rare ones) and was dismayed to find that many of them, despite sounding very nice, really ended up giving less detail (in certain places, after very careful comparisons) than even the headphone jack in my Benchmark DAC1. And when the Dynamight arrived it was like a slap in the face at first...like, wow what the heck is all this! And then I started getting used to it. And then switching back to my MPX3 made everything sound like I was listening underwater or something. Nice, but just plain wrong, to my ears at least.

 

[roastpuff]

Max, there's also the other tube amps running around that might suit you - an ASL MG HEAD DT OTL MKIII is a tube amp that I'm getting, and it's supposed to be quite a nice SET design for not much money (used, that is) and has the option of running OTL (Output Transformer-Less) mode or TO (Transformer Output) mode, giving you the choice of a more tubey sound or a less tubey sound. It also uses common tubes like the EL84 and the 12AX7, of which there are plenty of supply.

There's also several other Chinese-made amplifiers besides the Doge, like the Bada PH-12, the Yarland P100, the Little Dot MkIII/MkIV, the Feel series, the Opera Consonance series and several others that I can't remember at the moment.

Of course, you could always commission someone to build a DIY amp for you - the many Millet Hybrid variants come to mind, as does the SOHA kit. Both the Millet and the SOHA are hybrid amps, using the tubes as a voltage gain stage, but using solid state transistors as the output stage. Both are very low-maintenance, and are excellent entry-level platforms into tubes. If you want a hybrid design that was done commercially, try the Musical Fidelity X-Can V3, or it's earlier version. The V3 fetches around 325USD used, though I wouldn't even attempt to figure out how much shipping would be!

This is a very useful thread for amplifier information in general.

 

[AV8TR]

Cotdt, you obviously think quite highly of the Doge 6210, an amp I'm seriously thinking of purchasing to use with an AKG k601. I suspect it will exhibit similar synergy with my k601 (similar to your k701). I noticed that you are considering a Dynamight (solid state) in the future. In light of Scrith's previous post revealing an interesting perspective regarding SS vs tube amps, what are your thoughts thereto? If you are considering the Dynamight, you must think that SS has some advantages in certain areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Scrith seemed to think something was lost, or not quite right, when going back to his tube amp. Interesting, agree?

roastpuff, thanks for your amp suggestions. They all seem to be in the price range I'm considering -- still difficult to make a final decision, however.

AV8TR

 

[cotdt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV8TR /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cotdt, you obviously think quite highly of the Doge 6210, an amp I'm seriously thinking of purchasing to use with an AKG k601. I suspect it will exhibit similar synergy with my k601 (similar to your k701). I noticed that you are considering a Dynamight (solid state) in the future. In light of Scrith's previous post revealing an interesting perspective regarding SS vs tube amps, what are your thoughts thereto? If you are considering the Dynamight, you must think that SS has some advantages in certain areas. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Scrith seemed to think something was lost, or not quite right, when going back to his tube amp. Interesting, agree? AV8TR

Actually, people say that the K601 sounds different from the K701, though I've not heard the K601 myself. The best solid state amps (ie. the Dynamight) have some massive bass slam and every note has strong impact. They are a lot of fun, and are rather warm for a solid state amp. A good tube amp, however, has a sweeter sound with midrange bloom, which is something I've never heard from a solid state amp. To me, they are more intimate and involving. No, I don't think anything is "given up" when you use a tube amp, as long as it is a good one. The good tube amps are extremely detailed just like the best solid state amps. I am building solid state amps for myself because sometimes I also like that leaner, more analytical solid state sound (depending on my mood, I got half a dozen amps all connected to my source and ready for use). Tubes can acheive the same sound, but that also means sacrificing its "tubey-ness". For example, I have heard the Darkvoice 337 and Dynahi, and in a blind test I think it will be very difficult to tell them apart. But the Dynahi does not require 15 seconds to turn on, and you never have to replace tubes. It also has a pitch black background, whereas for any tube amp, if you listen carefully you will notice there is some background hum. So my philosophy is to use solid state amps for the solid state sound, and SET tube amps for the tube sound (of which there are many variations). Another thing to note is that all solid state amps sound more or less the same, but tube amps can sound dramatically different from each other. It's a bigger world.

 

[AV8TR]

cotdt, thank you very much for that thoughtful reply -- very helpful. That's exactly the kind of information I'm looking for to help me decide which way to go. Your response actually reinforces my desire to acquire a tube amp because my favorite music is vocal, classical, and acoustic genres, where I cherish the mid-range highly. I'm looking specifically for that "midrange bloom." I can easily accept some background hum to get that kind of musicality.

Your reply, however, also alerted me to the fact that careful amp selection is important, as some tube amps, as you mentioned, are not very "tubey." I may call on you again for advice, if you don't mind.

Thanks again!

AV8TR

 

[florinbaiduc]

and have any tube amp in mind, I would suggest you to just buy and enjoy it... The sound is really nice and some instruments (wind, piano) DO sound better on tubes than on solid state, due to the extra harmonic distortions...

 

[maxxy]

That being said, what kind of music benefits from tube amps?

 

[PFKMan23]

You can't generalize like that. I have listened to classical, rock, blues, pop, and punk, with my tube amp all with great results.

 

[SK138]

All good music benefit from tube goodness

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif That being said, what kind of music benefits from tube amps?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxy /img/forum/go_quote.gif That being said, what kind of music benefits from tube amps?

I find that, generally, tubes are a little heavy and slow on the low end. Some OTL amps do better down there, but still, if you like tight bass that hits hard, solid state will be more to your liking.

Naturally, the kind of music that fits with tubes goes along with that. If you like vocals, acoustic instruments and love the mids, then tubes will give you a great experience. Of course, this is a matter of taste, as well. Some people like the lows thick and syrupy.

Right now, I'm listening to the local jazz station on an all-tube stereo FM receiver into a Singlepower PPX3 with a K-501s. Heaven. The DT880s aren't too bad with the PPX3, either.

Don't overestimate the problems with tubes. They're not that bad... they're a mature product that's been around for 80+ years and they're easy to deal with. Most circuits are auto-biasing and you don't have to tube roll if you don't want to. It does change the sound, but there's nothing wrong with listening to them as they are. As for tube life, you'd be surprised. In addition to hi-fi gear, I've got antique radios going back to 1925 or so. They still work. I've got a number of tubes from the '30s and '40s that still work. They really do last.