trying to decide between cd player and computer

[uzziah]

i'm going to be building a new computer soon. and i'm trying to decide whether to use that as my music source or a dedicated cd player. so i'm wondering, for around $500, what would most likely sound better? do i need a very high performance (speed) computer to produce high quality sound? thanks. haden't even considered this before.

 

[pedxing]

If you are not planning to do anything intensive in the background while playing music, something as slow as a one gigahertz computer is more than enough. I think the quality of the music is going to be mostly determined by the quality of the components such as the sound card, speakers, and DAC's.

If you want something that plays back DVD movies well without hardware acceleration, you are going to need a fast computer.

I do not undestand why you are distinguishing the differences between a computer dedicated as a cd player versus a computer dedicated as a music source. Can you elaborate on your motives here because they sound the same to me? If the computer is built for one of the tasks, it should be able do the other task quite easily.

edit: fixed some errors.

 

[AndrewTosh]

Are you saying you want to put $500 towards building a new computer total, or just for the audio part?

If you're just spending it on audio, you could probably do as well as a similarly priced CD player, with a lot more convenience. Personally I'd pick up a card with bit-perfect digital out like the AV710 (~$30), and spend the rest on an external DAC (and possibly an optical->coax converter) that suits your tastes.

There's also some higher end cards whose analog outs compare well to mid-high end CD players. I'm not experienced with them, so I'll let someone else comment.

Downsides to this approach are that you'd miss out on new formats like SACD and DVD-A (a few cards can play DVD-A, but only downsampled), and also computer noise. The use of an external DAC or quality sound card will reduce the electrical noise of the computer itself, but the drives and fans can still be annoying. There's various companies out there making products to silence your PC, though. You could also put the PC in another room and use Airport Express' optical output for a DAC in another room, or use a laptop w/usb/firewire->s/pdif converter since they usually don't make as much noise as desktops.

Hope this helps some

 

[uzziah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedxing If you are not planning to do anything intensive in the background while playing music, something as slow as a one gigahertz computer is more than enough. I think the quality of the music is going to be mostly determined by the quality of the components such as the sound card, speakers, and DAC's. If you want something that plays back DVD movies well without hardware acceleration, you are going to need a fast computer. I do not undestand why you are distinguishing the differences between a computer dedicated as a cd player versus a computer dedicated as a music source. Can you elaborate on your motives here because they sound the same to me? If the computer is built for one of the tasks, it should be able do the other task quite easily. edit: fixed some errors.

thanks a lot for your help, surely i will have a computer over 2 gigahertz. i was trying to distinguish between a stand-alone cd player (i.e. not a computer) and a computer-as-source. either way, i won't have speakers, but will listen exclusively through headphones. also, what is a dac?

 

[uzziah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewTosh Are you saying you want to put $500 towards building a new computer total, or just for the audio part? If you're just spending it on audio, you could probably do as well as a similarly priced CD player, with a lot more convenience. Personally I'd pick up a card with bit-perfect digital out like the AV710 (~$30), and spend the rest on an external DAC (and possibly an optical->coax converter) that suits your tastes. There's also some higher end cards whose analog outs compare well to mid-high end CD players. I'm not experienced with them, so I'll let someone else comment. Downsides to this approach are that you'd miss out on new formats like SACD and DVD-A (a few cards can play DVD-A, but only downsampled), and also computer noise. The use of an external DAC or quality sound card will reduce the electrical noise of the computer itself, but the drives and fans can still be annoying. There's various companies out there making products to silence your PC, though. You could also put the PC in another room and use Airport Express' optical output for a DAC in another room, or use a laptop w/usb/firewire->s/pdif converter since they usually don't make as much noise as desktops. Hope this helps some

sorry, i should be more specific. your help is trully appreciated. i was saying $500 for just the components that would improve sound quality, not the whole computer. of course, i'm not eager to spend that much, i just wanted to compare between a computer source and straight cd-player source

 

[uzziah]

i won't be very close to the computer (on the other side of the room), though i can't rightly put it in another room. i assume you're talking about noise that is heard outside of the headphones, not through the headphone itself, right? wrong? i'll try to keep this link alive as i figure out what i'm going to do. and i really think considering i will be building a new computer anyway (or just buying a dell and building from there), that this would be a great option. i'll buy a big 200gb or so hardrive which will allow me to store all my music in FLAC. that will be very nice not to have to change cd's. still wondering what a dac is. i've heard a lot of talk about them, but i still don't understand the purpose. thanks.

 

[uzziah]

as far as sacd, dvd-a etc. i don't think that's a huge issue for me AT THE PRESENT. especially since i listen to portable audio more than i do sitting at home. i actually do have a laptop right now, a, ibook g3 500mhz. are you saying the quality through airport station would actually be good? i suppose i assumed that any wireless connection would give me garbage sound. anyway, no need to go wireless. if i keep my laptop and simply install a better soundcard, would that actually be a better option (assuming i'm using an external dac?) of course, with this option and without an external hard drive, i'd still have to keep my music in aac rather than a lossless format. humm....external hd?......

 

[Oliver :)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah i actually do have a laptop right now, a, ibook g3 500mhz. are you saying the quality through airport station would actually be good? i suppose i assumed that any wireless connection would give me garbage sound. anyway, no need to go wireless. if i keep my laptop and simply install a better soundcard, would that actually be a better option (assuming i'm using an external dac?) of course, with this option and without an external hard drive, i'd still have to keep my music in aac rather than a lossless format. humm....external hd?......

So can will forget about that Dell please?

The AirPort Express will give you a bit-perfect lossless signal of whatever you throw in via iTunes. I can't wait to get mine (iMac G5 has to touch down first), as there is a lot of potential in there if combined with a good DAC.
If you have a Bluetooth equipped cellphone (and iBook) take a peek here
http://homepage.mac.com/jonassalling/Shareware/Clicker/
A nice solution combined with an external HD, be aware of the limited range though.

If you want to build a new system anyway you could also keep the iBook and use it as a remote for iTunes, which is exactly what I am going to do with my new iMac and ancient iBook G3. I don't know about any cross-system apps for that purpose though, you would have to do some research (maybe some VNC solution).

 

[commando]

I use a PC as my source, because I listen to music at work. If you're going to be on your PC anyway, you might as well use it for music. Just get an emu 0404 or 1212 and you're away laughing.

The only problem I find is FLAC files run at around 1Mbps, which is fine if the PCs not busy, but if you're doing other things (software development, games) then that will slow your PC down a bit.

 

[AndrewTosh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah also, what is a dac?

DAC stands for digital to analog converter. It takes the digital signal from a PC or CD player and turns it into an analog signal to be plugged into an amp.

Every cd player, sound card, or computer with sound has it's own internal DAC that performs this function. That's how you get an analog out for your headphones or speakers. The trouble is that usually they aren't made as well as the more expensive external ones. They also suffer from poorer sound quality due to the interference inside the computer case. Some are worse than others, of course. On my old laptop you could hear noise whenever you scrolled web pages, not exactly hi-fi!

Since you have the iBook, why not do this? Get an Airport Express, hook the optical digital out from that into a DAC, and hook the DAC into your amp. Then when you need more space, you can simply plug a large hard drive in on your desktop, share your files with iTunes music sharing, and play them on the quiet iBook. I'm pretty sure that PCs can also play directly to Airport Express if that's too complicated.

 

[uzziah]

ok, i'm not going to have a desktop and a laptop. one or the other. i only use my computer for word processing and surfing the internet, so lets completely forget about the pc for now. so is the idea that basically i would:
1. change the sound card in my ibook g3?
2. get airport express (i already have an airport card in my ibook)
3. get an external dac
4. get an amp
5. connect the amp to my phones?

is that about right? could i really do that for around $500 and have it sound as good as dedicated-source cd player? or would i saccrifice some sound quality but gain conveinence? this would have to sound significantly better than my ipod, or otherwise it wouldn't be worth it. it would also be nice if the amp could be compatable between home system and ipod.

 

[AndrewTosh]

You don't have to change the sound card in the iBook at all, since all the sound would go through the Airport Express. The other stuff you have right pretty much. Keep in mind that you should use an amp even if you get a separate CD player, since usually the headphone outs on CD players aren't that great. So if you budget $100 for an amp, then you'd have a $400 CD player or $400 for the DAC and Airport Express.

Since the Airport Express runs about $150, and throw in maybe $50 or a bit less on cables, you could have ~$200 to spend on a DAC. Check the reviews section of Dedicated Source Components for some DAC reviews, or look around on www.audiogon.com and eBay to see what fits your price range. Buying used usually is a better value, and you get to let someone else take the depreciation hit on buying new.

I really can't comment personally on the sound quality of this setup vs. a $400 CD player, since there's good and bad ways to spend $400 either way. $400 can probably get you a lightly used Sony ES SACD/CD changer or a whole host of other mid-high end products. My guess is that they will sound slightly better under critical listening, but not a night and day difference. The convenience of a PC with all your music is very useful, and is really only a small trade-off in sound quality.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewTosh Keep in mind that you should use an amp even if you get a separate CD player, since usually the headphone outs on CD players aren't that great.

Ideally use a cd player that has a line out.

 

[uzziah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by commando Ideally use a cd player that has a line out.

thanks. i would also have to get an external hd that would cost big bucks if i wanted lossless, otherwise i have to stick with compressed

 

[hedrick]

There's two main issues is going from a CD to headphones:

* converting from the digital form that's on the CD to analog (which is what finally drives your headphone). The thing that goes from digital to analog is called a DAC. This can be a single chip on a sound card, or complete separate box.

* amplifying the signal so it can drive your headphones

Both of these are needed whether you use a computer or not. If you use a computer, digital to analog is normally done by a DAC chip on your sound card for a computer or by a DAC in your CD player. Both of these produce "line" output, which is a signal that isn't strong enough to drive headphones. Some sound cards and some CD players have headphone outputs, but they normally aren't of very good quality. So you normally need some kind of amplifier to drive the headphones.

Some people have mentioned using a separate DAC. This is because the DAC on typical sound cards and typical CD players aren't the best quality. Most sound cards and CD players have digital outputs as well as the line outputs. The digital outputs let you plug into a separate DAC, which presumably will be higher quality than the single-chip DACs on the sound card or CD player. However the good external DACs are around $1K or more. At moderate price levels you can get good enough sound quality by choosing a good sound card or a good CD player.

Thus the simplest approach for a PC is to use a high quality sound card. There are lots of threads on choosing a sound card. Lots of people seem to like products from E-MU. Similarly, if you prefer to use a CD player, you'll choose a CD player with a fairly good DAC.

Then you will want a headphone amplifier. Again, you'll find threads discussing them.

If you are using a laptop, you can't replace the sound card. That's builtin the motherboard, and laptops don't have PCI slots for sound cards. However there are external boxes that act like act like sound cards that connect to your computer using USB. As long as you have to use an external box, you may find it convenient to get one that acts both as a sound card and an amplifier. With my iBook I use a Headroom Total Bithead. It it a pretty good sound card -- not at the level of a high-end product, but good enough for a typical user. Its amplifer will drive a headphone with moderate requirements, such as my Sennheiser 580.

I probably wouldn't choose between PC and CD player based on price. A decent sound card is probably slightly less expensive than a decent CD player, but not enough to matter. The real question is how you're doing to use it. If you just want to pop CDs in the drive, a separate CD player is simpler and probably has slightly better sound quality than the least expensive sound cards (though not by much, and you can certainly get sound cards that match a CD player). What you get from using a PC or Mac is flexibility: You can upload hundreds of CD and then use an interface like iTunes to play them. I find that a lot more convenient than changing CDs in a player. Once they're online you can also move them to an iPod or other device.

If you like the flexbility of using a computer, get a good sound card and amplifier (or a USB sound card/amp combination such as the Bithead). If you don't think you're going to use that, get a CD player and amplifier.

I have no idea why anyone is suggesting the Airport Express. If you want to play music in a different room, it makes sense. If you want to attach headphones to a laptop or desktop, the AE seems an unnecessary complication.