[Crazy*Carl]

After many months of using different supposed "upgrade" DACs and AMP over an ipod or onboard sound, I am still far from convinced. It's not that these devices give me only small increase in sound quality, but rather they gave me NONE. In fact, everything source I've ever listened to sound all pretty much the same. Maybe this wasn't the case 10 or 15 years ago, but it sure seems like it is now. Headphones on the other hand make a massive difference.

So I am told to trust my ears? Well my ears say these forums are a bunch of exaggerations, lies, and snake oil.

Now to get ripped apart in posts!

 

[MomijiTMO]

I assume you went and heard some different gear? If so kudos to you for giving it a go. I honestly believe dacs and amps make a difference though.

 

[Groundzero]

To each his own.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif I assume you went and heard some different gear? If so kudos to you for giving it a go. I honestly believe dacs and amps make a difference though.

Ya, so do I. They make a 10% difference, but headphones make a 90% difference

 

[tamahome77]

Why don't you try a high end DAC like the audio-gd reference one? I went from headamp pico DAC to reference one dac and the jump was quite huge and similar to upgrading to a higher tier headphone.

 

[pekingduck]

Well I guess It depends on how resolving the headphones are?
For HD600/K701, the difference between DACs/amps is quite subtle.
However, I auditioned a pair of JH13 Pro (together with a couple of portable amps) last week and the difference between the amps was VERY obvious. I didn't even need to concentrate much.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamahome77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why don't you try a high end DAC like the audio-gd reference one? I went from headamp pico DAC to reference one dac and the jump was quite huge and similar to upgrading to a higher tier headphone.

I wouldn't pay that amount of money until I have a steady income (hopefully soon) but more importantly until I could audition one or something similar.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pekingduck /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I guess It depends on how resolving the headphones are? For HD600/K701, the difference between DACs/amps is quite subtle. However, I auditioned a pair of JH13 Pro (together with a couple of portable amps) last week and the difference was VERY obvious. I didn't even need to concentrate much.

That is odd. Some of the most popular high end headphones (HS600/K701) are not revealing?

Also, why would I have to concentrate to hear a difference? That isn't the point of music...

I came here wanting to get better sound, and headphones certainly did that. But beyond that I am stupefied.

 

[TheWuss]

no... not here to rip you apart, but to suggest a bit more temperence.

as reader of your post, i don't know what dacs you've tried, nor do i know which version of the ipod you are listening with.
so, before you dismiss the concept of different quality of sources, it might be helpful to lay out your argument a bit more thoroughly.

for instance, your idea of an "upgrade" dac - is it really the consensus on head-fi that it is better than an ipod? maybe and maybe not.

if you're listening to an ipod touch, then the dac inside that device is quite good. and, if your upgrade dac is a nuforce udac or something along those lines, then you might hear no difference at all.

it may also be possible that your hd580s are not allowing you to hear the subtle differences. the more resolving the headphone, the more you will be able to appreciate the differences between sources (what differences there are).

we're not here to argue with you, carl. we all hear differently and i think for the most part we all respect that.

and i think there are a lot of guys on here who share their opinions honestly and try their best not to exaggerate.

in closing i'll ask you this -
which is the worse offense - the hyperbole that sometimes happens, or calling what we say lies?

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Well, its pretty clear that my "rig" needs to go, as I personally can not hear the difference that $300 worth of gear makes.

I have heard many times that 1 or 2 hundred dollar DAC's or amps wont me a big step up. That's fine. But the problem is that its not a step up at all. Only to the side.

One day I hope to attend a high fi meet and listen to some real high end gear. Maybe then I will hear the difference, but will it justify the steep price to me? Maybe...

 

[Feanor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ya, so do I. They make a 10% difference, but headphones make a 90% difference

I have to say I agree with this, though I would add that the first steps in source improvement need to be taken (integrated audio -> emu0404 was a huge step up for me). Decent receivers can drive my Hd600's to quite good levels.

That said, I have not listened to a lot of equipment, but a range that covers many different things (NOS & OS dacs, SS & tubed headamps) and they did all ultimately sound very similar.

In all honesty there should be a warning about how the night and day differences one should hear based on the reviews are more like 9:00 am -> 9:15 am...

 

[pekingduck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is odd. Some of the most popular high end headphones (HS600/K701) are not revealing?

Most popular? Yes. High end? Not anymore.
The K701 are quite detailed (but not at the same level as the JH13) but the HD600 are not in terms detail retrieval.

Quote:

Also, why would I have to concentrate to hear a difference? That isn't the point of music...

I agree.. Be happy with your current DAC and amp and enjoy the music

 

[Feanor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pekingduck /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree.. Be happy with your current DAC and amp and enjoy the music

I second this advice, with the addendum of downgrading to some less expensive alternative that you find equally pleasing. I'm probably going the same path, although sadly the resale price of my equipment has plummeted.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWuss /img/forum/go_quote.gif if you're listening to an ipod touch, then the dac inside that device is quite good. and, if your upgrade dac is a nuforce udac or something along those lines, then you might hear no difference at all.

I think in the future, this hi end audio market is going to slowly disappear because regular devices will get so good. I think this is already happening.

 

[TheWuss]

yeah. sell me your hd580s.