Toyota fiasco, what's your take?

[chadbang]

They've been making the best cars in the world for 30 years. One problem hasnt shaken my faith in Toyota. BTW, the defective gas pedal is made for them in the U.S.A. Apparently, condensation can form inside the pedal leading to a problem (maybe, I say).

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majid /img/forum/go_quote.gif On the other hand, in Europe at least the brakes and handbrakes have to be specified so they have more stopping power than the engine torque, so even if your car goes out of control, you should be able to stop even if you can't get the transmission into neutral.

No modern car has brakes that cannot overcome the engine at WOT at any plausible speed. The problem is driver education. If the driver does not take action to bring the car to a swift halt and instead makes multiple attempts at slowing the car, the brake pads will overheat and will cease to provide effective braking.

 

[darcyb62]

Toyota makes a boring car. The only Toyota's I would have ever considered are the Celica, Supra and MR2. When those cars went, any desire I might have had for a Toyota went as well.
Toyota's problems started some time ago. They started cutting quality in an effort to cut costs. It's just now that it's catching up to them.

 

[majid]

The trooper who died was driving a loaner Lexus. Lack of familiarity with the car was certainly a major contributing factor. He was driving at 100mph when the accident occurred, so I am not sure if the brakes could work effectively enough without overheating. The Lexus had an electronic ignition, the kind you have to press and hold for 3 seconds to perform an emergency shut-off. Needless to say, in a panic situation with a car you are unfamiliar with, that's not going to happen.

I just got sucked into the recall. My car is in the body shop for collision damage and I was renting a Pontiac Vibe from Enterprise. They just called me to let me know it is also recalled, and they want me to stop by and exchange it.

Audi lost 2/3 of its sales due to the bogus "sudden acceleration" scare of the 80s, and took 15 years to recover. The impact to Toyota could be just as severe.

P.S.

I did some research - the Pontiac Vibe is the same car as the Toyota Matrix, and both were made in the now shuttered NUMMI plant right here in the Bay Area, in Fremont, CA.

For a very long time Japanese companies preferred to subcontract to other Japanese companies for parts. It took quite a while for US parts suppliers to convince them otherwise. The company that makes the accelerator pedals, CTS, is American and this will only confirm Japanese executive's bias against non-Japanese suppliers as unreliable.

This article at IEEE Spectrum is quite damning:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/...id-it-know-it-

 

[EYEdROP]

I personally dont like Toyota very much. Yeah, they generally make good cars and everything but truth is, any car should last a long time if you RTFM and do proper maintenance. Alot of it is also driving habits and highway vs. city miles.

The thing is, everyone and their Unkle owns a Toyota. Its VERY cookie cutter.
Alot of these people are jackass yuppies who beat the crap out of them because they think the car is invincible.

Im a Ford guy, but as far as the Jap makes, my Dad has driven Nissan's for years and they are very good IMO.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

The Lexus had an electronic ignition, the kind you have to press and hold for 3 seconds to perform an emergency shut-off.

And that is exactly the kind of car I consider a HUGE safety risk. You should always have the option to turn the car off IMMIDIETLY. In majority of cars its just behind the turn of key. In these kind of things too much electronics is not a good thing.

But still the driver had the option to turn gears neutral. Unless that is also blocked somehow. Then Toyota/Lexus should be sued for creating a accidental suicide device...

 

[Seamaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyb213 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I drive a 08' turbo outback and I am so content with it

My 08 regular outback does not like cold weather to start, below 32 degree F. idle not smooth.

I had 2001 Audi A6, had too many problems. Check engine light came up, read the code, cleared, came up again, it never stop! Driver side window sometime decide on it own quit working, when I was dring in the rain. At 2007, got letter from Audi saying defective head light recall: "your car may catch on fire". That's after 6 years, they just figure out? I had enough Audi traded in for 2007 350Z, then 2 months later, they recalled for clutch. I never took the car to dealer, because the Z was lost in a snow storm. Then I got 08 Honda civic EX, swaped the stock sway bar to si bar, and upgraded upspensions. I was happy for a while. By the way Civic has more road noise than 350Z. One day I locked the key in the car

, AAA came to use the air pillow thing on the door frame, unlocked door but bent the whole door frame. I clould just just off better to break the ********* window instead! Now got the 08 subaru, glove box came lose, and heat shield for exhuast torn up after I tried to cross water, and get to work duing flood. Those heat shield very very thin!! User mannual tells you put 32~33 PIS in the tires, I did so, but low air light came up often. I pumped in 35~36 PIS fixed the problem, and light never come up again. What the hell? You know, things just never ends......

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majid /img/forum/go_quote.gif The trooper who died was driving a loaner Lexus. Lack of familiarity with the car was certainly a major contributing factor. He was driving at 100mph when the accident occurred, so I am not sure if the brakes could work effectively enough without overheating. The Lexus had an electronic ignition, the kind you have to press and hold for 3 seconds to perform an emergency shut-off. Needless to say, in a panic situation with a car you are unfamiliar with, that's not going to happen.

Stopping from 100 MPH under WOT engine conditions is a piece of cake under hard continuous braking. The additional force necessary to overcome the engine is minor compared to the force necessary to brake from 100 MPH. It's the repeated attempts to slow down but not stop after the start of unintended acceleration that will overheat the brakes and cause them to fail. While cars are starting to come out with software that will cut engine power under braking, this isn't necessary to stop under any plausible conditions.

Killing the ignition is one of the last troubleshooting steps you should take in case of unintended acceleration. Modern cars are designed with power steering and power braking in mind and are often difficult to control with those aids turned off.

Honestly, the trooper and his family died because American society doesn't treat cars like the dangerous machines that they are. There's no excuse for not knowing basic failure drills to bring yourself to a safe, stopped condition if your car fails to correctly function.

 

[appophylite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Honestly, the trooper and his family died because American society doesn't treat cars like the dangerous machines that they are. There's no excuse for not knowing basic failure drills to bring yourself to a safe, stopped condition if your car fails to correctly function.

You've got a very strong point right there. When I was still in High School (Fall '01-Spring '03), They still offered after school drivers ed, and during that course, our instructor brought up various scenarios such as the potential for incidents such as what is happening with Toyota. Not only that, he started practical driving instruction out on the streets (no confined course or track) and did so during the winter so we would have a chance to practice skid control, etc. I started the course in '01 and got my license in the fall of '02 and was reasonably confident in my abilities. I have friends on the other hand who got their license around the same time and have no idea how to maintain basic control of their vehicle in the winter and others still such as my sister who came into high school after '03 and found that the course was dropped from the curriculum. My parents put my sister through a 3rd party program for training, but that guy didn't even bother to cover any scenarios such as these. Quite frankly, you are right: too many people, particularly in the US see driving as a right and not a privilege and don't learn or don't try to learn basics such as these.

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD1032 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really just don't get how you could get into a crash if your gas pedal stuck...you have so many options: 1) Turn off the car and turn the key back to "On". Steering, brakes, no engine. 2) Put the transmission in neutral. Any transmission has this setting, even autos, and you can use it any time. 3) Apply the brakes (this is the easiest...slam on the brakes...your car will come to a stop or your engine will stall, or both) 4) Apply the parking brake. All this does is activate the rear brakes. Drum brakes aren't as good as your front brakes for stopping the car, but they can stop the car, at least in mine. Frankly, I just don't see a scenario where I would crash.

Not all of us would think so rationally in such a situation. For me, unfortunately, it would probably be more like, "HOLY ALSKDSDKLFAJSDFKDF I CAN'T STOP!!!"

 

[Redo]

How can you not pop it in neutral in that situation

I feel bad, I do, but put the damned gearbox in neutral. I wonder if they are going to start doing these sort of emergency situations on the drivers exam now.

 

[soundboy]

Currently own a '09 Corolla S. Yup, it's on the recall list. However, I had no problem with the gas pedal/floormats at all. Will this shake my confidence in Toyota? No, not really. They're still better than Honda (owned 3 brand-new Honda's in the past), who just announced their own recall for the Fit.

 

[skyline889]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EYEdROP /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im a Ford guy, but as far as the Jap makes

Many people consider that term pretty offensive.

 

[earthpeople]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder if they are going to start doing these sort of emergency situations on the drivers exam now.

They really should. I don't know how it is in other states or countries, but here in Washington when I took Driver's Ed we only learned about driving rules, "safe" driving, and the very basics of the car (as in where the gas pedal is, turn signals, etc). Most places around here don't teach beyond that, which is a shame. A lot of people don't know what's going on in this potentially dangerous machine that they use all the time, much less what to do in life-threatening situation.

If the DMV started asking questions about emergency situations, it would force the education programs to implement them into the curriculum.

 

[fenixdown110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif You've got a very strong point right there. When I was still in High School (Fall '01-Spring '03), They still offered after school drivers ed, and during that course, our instructor brought up various scenarios such as the potential for incidents such as what is happening with Toyota. Not only that, he started practical driving instruction out on the streets (no confined course or track) and did so during the winter so we would have a chance to practice skid control, etc. I started the course in '01 and got my license in the fall of '02 and was reasonably confident in my abilities. I have friends on the other hand who got their license around the same time and have no idea how to maintain basic control of their vehicle in the winter and others still such as my sister who came into high school after '03 and found that the course was dropped from the curriculum. My parents put my sister through a 3rd party program for training, but that guy didn't even bother to cover any scenarios such as these. Quite frankly, you are right: too many people, particularly in the US see driving as a right and not a privilege and don't learn or don't try to learn basics such as these.

I agree as well. Taking driver's ed in high school covered all the bases for emergency cases in a car. It's ignorance that kills. Not the car.
Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not all of us would think so rationally in such a situation. For me, unfortunately, it would probably be more like, "HOLY ALSKDSDKLFAJSDFKDF I CAN'T STOP!!!"

Well then that person is SOL and can kiss their ass goodbye for not having common sense. Not to be harsh, but that's the cold hard truth. Survival of the fittest.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif wonder if they are going to start doing these sort of emergency situations on the drivers exam now.

I've always wondered why they didn't include something about emergencies on the driving exams. Perhaps now they will... or perhaps it will require us citizens to demand that they add one.

Here's an in-depth look at how the pedals are malfunctioning.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/29/v...tor/#continued