Toyota fiasco, what's your take?

Jan 29, 2010 at 6:29 AM Post #17 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3602 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I always have, and probably always will, stick to GM. Chevy just does it right. It's about time for Toyota to step down.


GM was at the top for quite a while. This would have happened sooner or later. Toyota is only recently outselling GM.

It's not ToMoCo's fault. Blame it on aftermarket floormats that don't fit right and people who don't know how to handle a car in an emergency. The driver that sparked this whole thing was an off duty police officer in a rental Lexus. The brake wouldn't slow the car down and he couldn't turn the car off since it had no key. However, he never thought to pop the car into neutral before applying the brake? Aren't the authorities trained for emergencies which are much less life threatening than this? I guess common sense is rare these days. If a police officer can't prevent something like this from happening, I'm worried about the department. It's yet another Darwin Award for the officer. However, it's unfortunate that due to his incompetency, three family member died. My condolences. The general public needs to learn more about the things they use everyday, like the cars they drive and the food they eat. You can't blame everything on your ignorance. Common sense saves the day.

Don't jump on the bandwagon blaming ToMoCo. Think for yourself and use your common sense when in any car in an emergency situation. It could happen to any car. It just happened to be a Toyota this time which happened to become a scapegoat.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 7:04 AM Post #18 of 45
I think it is good that Toyota is acknowledging the problem and taking steps to fix it. Everyone runs into problems. How you handle those problems is what is telling.

I'm driving an '07 Scion tC, not affected by the recall. Almost 53k miles and zero issues. I'd buy another Toyota. Though I don't know if I'll buy another new car. Most manufacturers have been locking out independent car mechanics with ridiculously priced computer diagnostic tools that are unaffordable. That forces you to go to the dealer for usually very expensive service.

Instead, I think I'll shift towards older cars and kit cars (some are truly excellent today) that can be serviced at home or one of the handful of remaining independents.

A side benefit is that older cars rarely depreciate and frequently appreciate. That can shift the usual hideous depreciation to your benefit - I hate paying interest on a depreciating asset. Unless I can write off the interest and depreciation the way I can with real property.
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I've given some thought to buying a C4 Corvette. They're almost at the bottom of the depreciation cycle and there's an armload of aftermarket and replacement parts for them, not to mention terrific online guides for repairing them. They might be some of the most practical vehicles out there - affordable parts and almost guaranteed appreciation over the coming years.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 7:14 AM Post #19 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by majid /img/forum/go_quote.gif
A California state trooper died with his family in an accident due to a related flaw in a loaner Lexus:
Fatal Santee Crash Prompts Letters to Toyota and Lexus Owners - San Diego 6

The second recall is for a flaw in the accelerator pedal itself that can cause it to stick. They also had a recall for a problem where brakes could lose hydraulic pressure. You have to release the brake pedal and re-engage it, but most people taken by surprise would not know what to do.

This is a huge black eye for Toyota, and threatens to undo their hard-won (and mostly justified) reputation for quality. The company's slowness in responding to driver reports will also cause it to be excoriated. As DaveBSC points out, this is a genuine flaw in Toyotas, unlike the unfounded Audi scare of the 80s.

I'm quite glad I opted for a BMW 525i instead of a Lexus GS 450h.

On the other hand, in Europe at least the brakes and handbrakes have to be specified so they have more stopping power than the engine torque, so even if your car goes out of control, you should be able to stop even if you can't get the transmission into neutral.



While tragic, to be fair it's not really a related issue. The issue with the California trooper was in relation to an improperly installed all-weather mat. Same outcome yes, but completely different issues.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 7:21 AM Post #20 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by NacMacFeegle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Feeling pretty glad I went for Subaru last summer and picked up a Legacy for the wife and a Turbo Forrester for me.
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Got rid of a boat and a truck to pay for them, but soooo worth it.



I drive a 08' turbo outback and I am so content with it
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Jan 29, 2010 at 9:56 AM Post #22 of 45
The floormat-gate and pedal stick-gate cause the same problem, but they are two separate sources. Toyota is not suspending production of a large part of their product lineup because of floormats. The main issue is that pedals from one of their suppliers can stick on even in cars with no floormats.

So Toyota owners were told about this, told their floormats were the problem, and given zip ties to try and keep the mats from sliding under the pedal until new mats with proper securing pegs could be made. Then Toyota says, oops, actually its not the mats, the pedals in half of our products have a design fault that could cause them to stick on. We don't currently have a solution. We don't know if part of the pedal or the entire assembly needs to be replaced. We dont know when we can start getting new pedals. The cars sitting idle on the production lines need new pedals, and are likely to get them first. If you own an affected car, you're gonna have to wait, possibly a year or more because the supplier does not keep a stock pile of pedals for this kind of situation, and we need millions and millions of new pedals.

Toyota did not voluntarily stop production, the NHTSA shut them down. This looks BAD. While Toyota can't build the cars and dealers can't sell them, they are looking at a potential $1B in lost revenue per month.

In order to be in a GM situation, Toyota needs to sell a decade or more of terrible cars. GM went bankrupt because owners of the junk they made in the Roger Smith era never came back. Toyota isn't there yet, but they have been going downhill since the mid '90s. It's possible to save your reputation from total disaster (ask Mercedes), but they had better get a move on.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 12:07 PM Post #23 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think it is good that Toyota is acknowledging the problem and taking steps to fix it. Everyone runs into problems. How you handle those problems is what is telling.

...snip



I agree 100%.

Things do go wrong in the design or manufacturing process - even for big companies. Those companies that step up and accept responsibility and take all reasonable action to rectify the fault usually come through the ordeal stronger than they went in.

Toyota are the number one manufacturer of cars in the world for good reason. They sell well made, reliable and inexpensive vehicles.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 12:29 PM Post #24 of 45
To the death-situation, I dont know what the driver was thinking but if your gas pedal gets stuck down first thing you do is turn the car off (BTW, I consider cars that cannot be turned off on fly a huge safety risk and would never buy one) or hit the gearbox to neutral, preferably latter because you wont lose brake and steering assists. Still, its a sad situation that this happened and people died, but I would blame the driver too, not just Toyota.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 1:09 PM Post #25 of 45
Toyota is doing the right thing. They've got a problem, they've acknowledged it, and they're correcting it. I thinks in the long run it will have no effect on the company or its sales. They build a good car .
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 2:05 PM Post #26 of 45
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcat28037 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Toyota is doing the right thing. They've got a problem, they've acknowledged it, and they're correcting it. I thinks in the long run it will have no effect on the company or its sales. They build a good car .


Yes. I would be more worried if they wouldnt be calling the cars in. But still, Toyota has a long history of reliable cars with surprisingly little faults and even those were very small. Something this big is definetly a hit to their face and pride.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 2:38 PM Post #27 of 45
I bought a Tundra a while back. I believe it was the second model year. Within 30 days, we had to have the engine completely rebuilt. We soon sold it and I haven't owned a Toyota since. Prior to that, my wife owned a T100 truck (great truck!) and I owned a 4Runner. The Tundra incident completely soured our impression of Toyota quality.

I haven't heard on the news or any other of our wonderful media outlets (read sarcasm) whether or not this only involves US production Toyotas or not. Does anyone know?

EDIT: NM...I just read an earlier post saying this is extending to other countries.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 3:00 PM Post #28 of 45
I really just don't get how you could get into a crash if your gas pedal stuck...you have so many options:

1) Turn off the car and turn the key back to "On". Steering, brakes, no engine.
2) Put the transmission in neutral. Any transmission has this setting, even autos, and you can use it any time.
3) Apply the brakes (this is the easiest...slam on the brakes...your car will come to a stop or your engine will stall, or both)
4) Apply the parking brake. All this does is activate the rear brakes. Drum brakes aren't as good as your front brakes for stopping the car, but they can stop the car, at least in mine.

Frankly, I just don't see a scenario where I would crash.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 3:21 PM Post #29 of 45
While I prefer japanese car and have a high expectation on toyota's quality, my family got a bad experience on one of them. My mom got a 02 Rav4 which have ecm problem and toyota finally acknowledge but only repair cars under 90k mile. My mom's rav4 got 120k when the transmission start showing problem. She took it to toyota dealer, they told her it will need to get its transmission rebuild and it will cost her 6-7k. 120k miles, a toyota, having a transmission rebuild, it's ridiculous. The dealer never talk about the ecm problem. I do my research, found the defective ecm problem, and found an ebay seller who's able to get that ecm fixed for $200-300 only. Send the ecm, got it back, put it back in the car and voila it works. This incident left a bad experience in our side.

It's not about the car, she loved the car, it's the fact the dealer did not tell us about the defective ecm and expect us to get a transmission rebuild instead. Toyota's action also disappoint us, the defect is unpredictable but it's there, it might show up at 60k or 150k, yet they only fix the car under 90k and they do it silently, meaning if you don't know or you got a bad dealer who don't inform you, they won't acknowledge the warranty repair.
 
Jan 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM Post #30 of 45
This will definitely hurt Toyotas reliability reputation!
It is good that they acknowledge the problem and stop production of the models while fixing it though.
 

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