Toroid for STEPS in the UK?

[Magsy]

From what I can tell the STEPS is good for either the M³ or PPA v2, it can also power my Pimeta for now...

I've looked in the usual places but can't find the Amveco Tangent has listed, anyone found them for sale or a suitable substitute?

I'm feeling a little trepid, the thought of 240v going astray worries me (I've seen my old man blown across the room once

) also I lack the knowledge of this kinda thing. I want to build something that is on a PCB and has been done before, no protoboard for me!
The PCB mount looks neat, no big dangerous looking coil things floating about

Thanks...

 

[individual6891]

There is a replacement (tho I've never tried it) encapsulated toroid at RS components (nuvotem?)

 

[steinchen]

http://www.reichelt.de/ has the Talemas listed, e.g. "RKPT 25215" = 25 VA, 2x 15 V, 832 mA for 16,70 EUR

 

[shiggins]

Amveco, Talema, Nuvotem - They're all the same people I think. I got a Nuvotem one from RS and it works fine. Aside from the printed text, it looks idetical to the Amveco's I've seen. The 2x15v @ 15VA is part number 223-9345 at £13.27. They also do 25VA and 2x12V and many other varieties too.

s.

 

[Magsy]

Thanks all, the RS one does look similar

 

[peranders]

tangent, this 230 volt issue is important. I think you should tell these guys what I have told you. The issue is creepage distance between primary and secondary side and electrical safety.

 

[tangent]

Quote:

I think you should tell these guys what I have told you.

I have.

 

[peranders]

Quote:

Second, there is a Euro-nanny regulation that says that the 'mains' voltage has to be at least 8mm from anything that the user can touch in any piece of electronics. An argument could be made that an assembled STEPS violates this regulation because the traces coming out of the filter choke come within 4mm of the transformer secondary traces. The question is whether this counts as something the user can touch.

Assume that you can touch a phono contact, the metallic parts. That's enough and highly likely. Assume also that the equipment not is grounded because in Sweden it doesn't have to be.

Quote:

I think the chances of any of this happening are very small, but there's the facts. Make up your own mind.

I don't think either that 4 mm is way too small but when it comes to personal safety and regulations it's hard to argue about it when you are selling something. If you are selling to EU you have a product responsibility and you would feel a lot better _if_ your board had enough creepage distance. I can say that I have little knowledge about what happens in surfaces and insulation materials so I just adept to accepted standards.

Until you make a revision of your board I'm quite convinced that this minor defect can be fixed. Otherwise it's a nice pcb you have made.

I don't blaim you if you think EU has ridiculous regulations but since we have 230-240 VAC it's at least twice as dangerous as 120 VAC. Therefore we have harder regulations.

I consider you, Morsel and the rest of your "gang" as pretty skilled when it comes to electronic design but if you are taking safety issues lightly and say that "Make up your own mind." and show some important gaps in knowledge and at the same time say that "I think the chances of any of this happening are very small", this is not a good policy. If you are going to sell your 120 V designs to a 230 V market you _must_ do what you can to make them safe (according to standards) and take help from those who can and you can't negotiate away things you don't like.

I'm very convinced that you can get help from the community here and at especially at diyaudio.com so take advantage of that. I have no problem to be a free consultant to commercial activities and I think many think like me.

I don't want to mess with you, I only want the best for your customers.

 

[morsel]

Quote:

I consider you, Morsel and the rest of your "gang" as pretty skilled when it comes to electronic design but if you are taking safety issues lightly and say that "Make up your own mind." and show some important gaps in knowledge and at the same time say that "I think the chances of any of this happening are very small", this is not a good policy.

Tangent designed the circuit and layout of the STEPS all on his own. "Morsel and the rest of the gang" had nothing to do with it.

Having said that, I think you are making an awfully big deal about a choke that is 4mm away from compliance. I wonder how many commercial European power supplies have minor violations such as this. Hopefully Tangent will move the choke for the next round of boards and that will be the end of the matter.

There is inherent risk working with AC power supplies.
Incompetent people should not work with AC power supplies.

Incompetent \In*com"pe*tent\, a. [L. incompetens: cf. F. incomp['e]tent. See {In-} not, and {Competent}.] 1. Not competent; wanting in adequate strength, power, capacity, means, qualifications, or the like; incapable; unable; inadequate; unfit.

 

[peranders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morsel Having said that, I think you are making an awfully big deal about a choke that is 4mm away from compliance. I wonder how many commercial European power supplies have minor violations such as this.

It's pretty hard in Europe and all AC stuff must be able to handle 4 kV between primary and secondary side. I think there are pretty few power supplies which don't meet electrical standards. Ok, enough said about this.

A good rule is to alwyas use CE marked parts approved for the task and have 8 mm creepage distance. Then you have made pretty much when it comes to safety.

 

[tangent]

peranders, I'm not trying to be difficult here. I do intend to change this in the next version, but I have many months worth of boards left, and little incentive to throw them away just to make the Euro-nannies happy.

You say I can't negotiate away laws I don't like. That argument is based on a false premise. I am not selling power supplies. My board doesn't become even potentially dangerous until some DIYer populates it and plugs it in. It seems to me that the person providing the 'dangerous product' here is the DIYer. I've done what I can for now, and I intend to do what I can in the future to make it better. Beyond that, it's up to the DIYer to hold up his end of the responsibility burden.

 

[peranders]

I understand perfectly your dilemma but if you can see the time frame you could order new pcb's especially if you only want to make minor changes and sell the "old" pcb's to 120 V countries and the new ones to 230 V countries. Sometimes it can be hard to predict the demand, I know....

I know there is a big difference between a ready made unit, just to plug in and using different parts and put them together. The manufacturer (the builder) is responsible for the result, of course. The builder have to make sure that every rule is fulfilled (impossible!) but if you design a part (pcb in your case) I think it's your duty to do your best, but this is more a moral duty. Hopefully you will do what is right and you can be proud over yourself.

You and a very few more have offered and offer good projects to the DIY community and I like the way you develop things. You run the show rather professionally I think so keep up the good work.

 

[tangent]

Quote:

if you can see the time frame you could order new pcb's

What time frame are you talking about? I said "many months" of supply left, while getting new boards takes only a few weeks. That still leaves me with a lot of useless boards.

It would be different if the existing boards didn't work at all, but that's not the case.

Quote:

I think it's your duty to do your best, but this is more a moral duty. Hopefully you will do what is right and you can be proud over yourself.

I've done what I can for now, short of throwing away a lot of functional boards.

 

[peranders]

Are most of your costumers from 230 V countries? If 90% goes to 120 V, you can order more boards (not so many though) and sell the rest to 120 V countries. You don't have to throw away anything.

 

[tangent]

You assume that the next version will have no virtues for 120V users.