[Davesrose]

Yes, it seems simplistic now that I read your comment and the article you linked. I don't know that much about the subject to affirm what really happened when recordings appeared.

I've been obsesively thinking in recent years which effect new advancements in immersive audio would have in music if they became mainstream.

Well to be fair, it is funny to read about music theory and how everyone has their own opinions (it's like food critics). The main point I've taken is that we'll never really know what a musical interpretation would be at a given time. For example, I don't know how realistic Neville Marriner's interpretation of Mozart is, but I still subjectively prefer him. So much so that I have some recent SACD recordings of Mozart that are "technically" better from a spec standard.....but still enjoy Marriner better for the actual music.

 

[Ilomaenkimi]

Yes i do use crossfeed. Never been a fan of crossfeed. Until i bought SPL Phonitor xe and tested their Matrix. It's been in use since.
It is very subtle, does not colour sound. And makes listening much more relaxed and enjoyable. Works for me.

 

[SupperTime]

I enjoy crossfeed on the rme adi-2 dac, it makes it easier to listen to sibilant tracks, I have some poor recordings.
On the good recordings I feel crossfeed sort of takes the detail away... Or is just me?

 

[gregorio]

I enjoy crossfeed on the rme adi-2 dac, it makes it easier to listen to sibilant tracks, I have some poor recordings.
On the good recordings I feel crossfeed sort of takes the detail away... Or is just me?

I don't know exactly what the adi-2 is doing with it's crossfeed but generally, crossfeed does not crossfeed (or change in anyway) the higher freq range where sibilance exists. However, as crossfeed is adding some of the lower frequency signal (typically below about 800Hz or so) to the opposite channel, you will obviously get more lower/bass freqs and therefore, if you (or the adi-2 itself) reduce the overall volume to compensate, you would have relatively less high freq (above ~800Hz). While we're only talking about a very few dB, that can be enough to noticeably reduce sibilance and in some cases, effectively remove it entirely. Again though, it depends on exactly how the adi-2 is implementing it's crossfeed.

Crossfeed does in effect "take the detail away", because some of the left channel signal is superimposed on the right channel (and vice versa), which can blur or obscure "the detail". However, it seems that some people are either not able to perceive this loss of detail in the first place or, do perceive it but don't care/mind, because the other benefits they perceive from using crossfeed outweigh this loss of detail. So, it's not just you but neither is it applicable to everyone else.

And lastly, how are you defining good (and poor) recordings? On the basis of more detail, less sibilance, whether it doesn't sound as good with crossfeed, something else? There are numerous metrics for a good or poor recording, most of which are subjective and quite a few may have more to do with your reproduction equipment and listening environment than whether the recording itself is good or poor.

G

 

[SupperTime]

I don't know exactly what the adi-2 is doing with it's crossfeed but generally, crossfeed does not crossfeed (or change in anyway) the higher freq range where sibilance exists. However, as crossfeed is adding some of the lower frequency signal (typically below about 800Hz or so) to the opposite channel, you will obviously get more lower/bass freqs and therefore, if you (or the adi-2 itself) reduce the overall volume to compensate, you would have relatively less high freq (above ~800Hz). While we're only talking about a very few dB, that can be enough to noticeably reduce sibilance and in some cases, effectively remove it entirely. Again though, it depends on exactly how the adi-2 is implementing it's crossfeed.

Crossfeed does in effect "take the detail away", because some of the left channel signal is superimposed on the right channel (and vice versa), which can blur or obscure "the detail". However, it seems that some people are either not able to perceive this loss of detail in the first place or, do perceive it but don't care/mind, because the other benefits they perceive from using crossfeed outweigh this loss of detail. So, it's not just you but neither is it applicable to everyone else.

And lastly, how are you defining good (and poor) recordings? On the basis of more detail, less sibilance, whether it doesn't sound as good with crossfeed, something else? There are numerous metrics for a good or poor recording, most of which are subjective and quite a few may have more to do with your reproduction equipment and listening environment than whether the recording itself is good or poor.

G

As in shouty, sibilant, less detail

 

[FlavioWolff]

Just found out that HeSuVi has a fully configurable crossfeed implementation.

No mentions on HeSuVi on this thread, though. Has anyone tried it? Since it works with EqualizerAPO, it's system wide.

 

[lasker98]

This is my first post on Head-Fi after over 10 years as a member. The only reason I'm posting now is to thank 71 dB for all his contributions to this thread.

I felt compelled to make this post since I've just finished reading the entire thread from the beginning over a period of days. Based on this, I'd say 71 dB deserves a lot of credit for the way he handled himself over the life of this thread. Maybe not perfectly, but he was a saint compared to the other vocal majority. I can honestly say he's the only one I learned anything useful from, despite the barrage of posts from most of the other "noise" contributors. I don't know why he put up with the abuse he did, but for me at least, I'm grateful that he did. I got the distinct impression, just my own opinion here, that the majority of the noise posts were made by people that were much more interested in defending some perceived position of authority they seemed to feel they had or deserved for some reason, instead of actually addressing the OP's original premise. This was my first experience in the Sound Science side of Head-Fi and it wasn't a pretty picture to say the least. The level of personal attacks, pedantic posts and responses, ridiculously long responses from people with nothing to contribute beyond their original premise and obvious need to be right while contributing zero to the thread's intent. People posting page after page to say nothing other than basically they don't even use headphones! And the mod(s) saw fit to attack dB 71 for his posts? It definitely makes me wonder what these people really do for a living when they're able to spend so much time over a period of years making useless posts. I'd say there's a lot of people that participated in this thread that should, but I'm sure won't, feel embarrassed if they would take an honest look back at their "contributions" to this thread. That goes from the mod(s) on down. As I stated, this was my first experience in the Sound Science side of this forum and this is only my opinion. Maybe this is just normal over here. It's sure different from any other threads I've read over the years here on Head-Fi and not in a good way.

I had previously tried crossfeed (Roon with Sennheiser HD600) and had always gone back to no crossfeed. Thanks to 71 dB and some others, I realized what crossfeed actually does and what to listen for. I now also understand what and why the different settings do. Since this thread started I've been using crossfeed and very happy with it. It has definitely added to my headphone listening experience in a major way. I'm currently using Roon custom setting of 700 Hz Cut Frequency and 5 dB Feed Level.

In response to Op's original "To crossfeed or not to crossfeed? That is the question... ", i'm now a big YES for crossfeed. This is completely based on the incredible input and contributions from 71 dB. Thanks 71 dB.

 

[bigshot]

Welcome back 71dB

 

[castleofargh]

This is my first post on Head-Fi after over 10 years as a member. The only reason I'm posting now is to thank 71 dB for all his contributions to this thread.

I felt compelled to make this post since I've just finished reading the entire thread from the beginning over a period of days. Based on this, I'd say 71 dB deserves a lot of credit for the way he handled himself over the life of this thread. Maybe not perfectly, but he was a saint compared to the other vocal majority. I can honestly say he's the only one I learned anything useful from, despite the barrage of posts from most of the other "noise" contributors. I don't know why he put up with the abuse he did, but for me at least, I'm grateful that he did. I got the distinct impression, just my own opinion here, that the majority of the noise posts were made by people that were much more interested in defending some perceived position of authority they seemed to feel they had or deserved for some reason, instead of actually addressing the OP's original premise. This was my first experience in the Sound Science side of Head-Fi and it wasn't a pretty picture to say the least. The level of personal attacks, pedantic posts and responses, ridiculously long responses from people with nothing to contribute beyond their original premise and obvious need to be right while contributing zero to the thread's intent. People posting page after page to say nothing other than basically they don't even use headphones! And the mod(s) saw fit to attack dB 71 for his posts? It definitely makes me wonder what these people really do for a living when they're able to spend so much time over a period of years making useless posts. I'd say there's a lot of people that participated in this thread that should, but I'm sure won't, feel embarrassed if they would take an honest look back at their "contributions" to this thread. That goes from the mod(s) on down. As I stated, this was my first experience in the Sound Science side of this forum and this is only my opinion. Maybe this is just normal over here. It's sure different from any other threads I've read over the years here on Head-Fi and not in a good way.

I had previously tried crossfeed (Roon with Sennheiser HD600) and had always gone back to no crossfeed. Thanks to 71 dB and some others, I realized what crossfeed actually does and what to listen for. I now also understand what and why the different settings do. Since this thread started I've been using crossfeed and very happy with it. It has definitely added to my headphone listening experience in a major way. I'm currently using Roon custom setting of 700 Hz Cut Frequency and 5 dB Feed Level.

In response to Op's original "To crossfeed or not to crossfeed? That is the question... ", i'm now a big YES for crossfeed. This is completely based on the incredible input and contributions from 71 dB. Thanks dB 71.

The personal attacks went too far too many times, even I got mad and that's obviously not right. Gregorio is in trouble right now because of such tendencies to act like a bully.
Now your take away from all this is your own. I didn't quite come to the same conclusion after seeing several audio professionals, sound engineers, and people passionate about sound field and speaker simulation, try to explain to 71 dB what was wrong in his reasoning and some of his statements, just to end up with him repeating the same oversimplified idea again and again and...
Also being the most active modo in this section, I remember some of the many posts I had to delete(and yes, the horrible stuff that remains is the lesser offensive portion, if you can believe it), so that gives me a different perspective on the "saint" thing. He doesn't blow up too often but when he does it's no joke.

Anyway, you have learned a little about crossfeed and you like it with better settings, great. I've loved using crossfeed for almost a decade now, and only stopped because I've found better tools giving me a more "correct spatiality" if you will(sarcasm is very bad, but I'm also not a saint).
So if you wish to get away from headphones' stereo with albums clearly made for speakers, I strongly recommend https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Impulcifer . You'll need to procure some binaural microphones or make some yourself and the rest is free. You can ask questions about it there https://www.head-fi.org/threads/recording-impulse-responses-for-speaker-virtualization.890719/
and if you have a lot of money and some nice speaker setup you can record at home or at a friend's, you might want to check the Realiser A16 which is pretty much the same thing with head tracking and it costs a fortune.

 

[housekrl]

I owned a Meier Concerto with crossfeed for several years. I think it is possible that the crossfeed switch was not even connected to anything. Myself as well as others could not tell a difference even on old jazz recordings. I should have taken it apart to inspect while I had it. Oh well

 

[bigshot]

By "old jazz recordings" do you mean mono?

 

[housekrl]

By "old jazz recordings" do you mean mono?

Not really sure. Recordings where the instruments are obviously on the left or right channel. John Coltrane and stuff like that.
You would think I could hear some change with the crossfeed engaged but I never could.

 

[bigshot]

Maybe it’s one of those magic buttons that don’t do anything. I had a sound purity button on an old SACD player that never seemed to make a lick of difference. But it lit up a beautiful purple LED, so I left it on. I called it my purple placebo button.

 

[housekrl]

Maybe it’s one of those magic buttons that don’t do anything. I had a sound purity button on an old SACD player that never seemed to make a lick of difference. But it lit up a beautiful purple LED, so I left it on. I called it my purple placebo button.

Lol. Actually I was very underwhelmed by the Meier Concerto. I paid $750 and thought it shouldn't cost more than $300.

 

[castleofargh]

I owned a Meier Concerto with crossfeed for several years. I think it is possible that the crossfeed switch was not even connected to anything. Myself as well as others could not tell a difference even on old jazz recordings. I should have taken it apart to inspect while I had it. Oh well

If it's the usual Meier's crossfeed implementation, it's not so subtle that it could be missed when switching it ON and OFF. So maybe you did get a lemon.