Tin Hifi P1 impressions
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cenix

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Yes I would.. Most PC cards are not the best for audio..a separate dedicated amp/dac or ampdac combo would be the proper way to go to get the best results.
Thank you. So, in conclusion, for my LG V30 or the Xduoo X3, I would only need to pair it with an AMP, a DAC is not needed in this case. If I want better audio quality from my PC, it's better if I buy a dedicated DAC and AMP. In this case, I would connect the DAC to the PC via USB yes? (Sorry, i'm a newbie on this front, as I have never experimented with external DACs)

Looking at the Topping D10 and ATOM AMP for down the road perhaps.
 
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aliquis

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Xonar STX II seem to be a much more expensive card but:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-asus-stx-ii-pci-sound-card.4915/
2.1+ Vrms. 0.001-0.0015% THD+N. But around 97 dB SINAD. Then again the later is still just above CD quality right? Higher than JDS Element DAC for instance. Lower than Topping D10.
The Gigabyte B8 motherboard he claim has 107 dB SINAD.
"The J-test signal toggles all the sample bits to the tune of 250 Hz. This should be invisible since it is being applied to last bit of 24 bit words. Yet, we easily see its spectrum here indicating bleeding of digital circuits into analog."
Higher noise floor here and there against the motherboard, and higher just about everywhere than the Topping D50 (but how fair is that?)
"You lose accuracy in as low as 11 bits."
"I did not test the headphone output. It has a 10 ohm output impedance which is a bit problematic."

As for if any of that applies to the Xonar DS I don't know but I think that was a much cheaper card. However maybe it's better than many onboard solutions. I don't know if the STX II really is better than it or not. Or whatever the stuff above is correct.

With low impedance headphones my computer with onboard ALC1220 / SupremeFX made a lot of noises even with idle load and more with game however I think using a grounded power cord solved that. I don't know the conditions for the test above.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurement-of-lg-g7-thinq-smartphone.4468/
I don't know if LG G7 and V30 is exactly the same or not but:
1.04 Vrms, 0.00027-0.0004% THD+N, 107-111 dB SINAD.
"Output impedance was a low 1.6 ohm"
"The LG G7 ThinQ DAC produces exemplary performance."
"As we see, the headphone amp does not like low impedances. It sharply drops output voltage resulting in very low power outputs. This is the opposite of external headphone amplifiers where lowering the load impedance increases their output power."
3.6 mW @ clipping for 33 ohm, 2.5 mW for 50. With 100 ohm it did better with 50 mW.

So the LG G7 seem to have better quality audio than the Xonar STX II. But weak power.

https://headfonics.com/2018/07/xduoo-x3ii-review/
"The X3II dishes out 210mW, roughly, and that just isn’t much at all for anyone using a Planar or anything above 120Ω."

Maybe phone with just amp is fine?
JDS Labs Atom amp has favourable reviews but may not be great for portable usage:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/
at 33 ohm: "You get one full watt of power at just 0.0009% distortion. Incredible."
 
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cenix

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Xonar STX II seem to be a much more expensive card but:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...surements-of-asus-stx-ii-pci-sound-card.4915/
2.1+ Vrms. 0.001-0.0015% THD+N. But around 97 dB SINAD. Then again the later is still just above CD quality right? Higher than JDS Element DAC for instance. Lower than Topping D10.
The Gigabyte B8 motherboard he claim has 107 dB SINAD.
"The J-test signal toggles all the sample bits to the tune of 250 Hz. This should be invisible since it is being applied to last bit of 24 bit words. Yet, we easily see its spectrum here indicating bleeding of digital circuits into analog."
Higher noise floor here and there against the motherboard, and higher just about everywhere than the Topping D50 (but how fair is that?)
"You lose accuracy in as low as 11 bits."
"I did not test the headphone output. It has a 10 ohm output impedance which is a bit problematic."

As for if any of that applies to the Xonar DS I don't know but I think that was a much cheaper card. However maybe it's better than many onboard solutions. I don't know if the STX II really is better than it or not. Or whatever the stuff above is correct.

With low impedance headphones my computer with onboard ALC1220 / SupremeFX made a lot of noises even with idle load and more with game however I think using a grounded power cord solved that. I don't know the conditions for the test above.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurement-of-lg-g7-thinq-smartphone.4468/
I don't know if LG G7 and V30 is exactly the same or not but:
1.04 Vrms, 0.00027-0.0004% THD+N, 107-111 dB SINAD.
"Output impedance was a low 1.6 ohm"
"The LG G7 ThinQ DAC produces exemplary performance."
"As we see, the headphone amp does not like low impedances. It sharply drops output voltage resulting in very low power outputs. This is the opposite of external headphone amplifiers where lowering the load impedance increases their output power."
3.6 mW @ clipping for 33 ohm, 2.5 mW for 50. With 100 ohm it did better with 50 mW.

So the LG G7 seem to have better quality audio than the Xonar STX II. But weak power.

https://headfonics.com/2018/07/xduoo-x3ii-review/
"The X3II dishes out 210mW, roughly, and that just isn’t much at all for anyone using a Planar or anything above 120Ω."

Maybe phone with just amp is fine?
JDS Labs Atom amp has favourable reviews but may not be great for portable usage:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-new-jds-labs-atom-headphone-amp.5262/
at 33 ohm: "You get one full watt of power at just 0.0009% distortion. Incredible."
I believe the G7 has the same DAC as the V30. ATOM is not portable at all, because you need to power it via a brick, besides its huge size (which I wouldn't want to drag along with me all the time). For now, I will stick with the V30 + E11 combo, unless there is a much better portable amp than the E11 (which is pretty old atm) around the 50-70$ price range. For down the line, I am thinking about investing in the D10 + ATOM AMP combo for my PC.
 
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capnjack

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What do people usually hook their AMPs to at home, just to a DAP or their PC? At the moment, I think that the LG outshines Xduoo X3 in terms of DAP functionalities. My PC has a measly Asus Xonar DS. If I were to buy the ATOM AMP and attach it to my PC, would I need to buy a DAC too?
This works well for me :) Though the P1 also pairs really nicely with tubes - Little dot mk2

FE901445-D5AC-4BA3-B353-B6F93A09D8A6.jpeg
 
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allaces305

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What do people usually hook their AMPs to at home, just to a DAP or their PC? At the moment, I think that the LG outshines Xduoo X3 in terms of DAP functionalities. My PC has a measly Asus Xonar DS. If I were to buy the ATOM AMP and attach it to my PC, would I need to buy a DAC too?[/Yes you're gonna need a DAC... If you're going to use any audio signal coming out of a PC I would recommend you find out first if that PC audio card is any good or great... If it's no good then you are going to need to buy a DAC of your choice to connect via USB to your computer... Then you would connect that DAC to your favorite amplifier and connect your headphones into that.
 
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roy_allan79

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Got this little bugger this morning, using it out of the mojo. It's quite good. I don't think bass is bad. I was actually pleasantly surprised.

the key is a good seal. I used the accompanying foam.

it's a keeper. Ymmv.
 
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cenix

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If you're going to use any audio signal coming out of a PC I would recommend you find out first if that PC audio card is any good or great... If it's no good then you are going to need to buy a DAC of your choice to connect via USB to your computer... Then you would connect that DAC to your favorite amplifier and connect your headphones into that.
My PC sound card is a Asus Xonar DS, I already hear slight hisses coming from it, so I don't think that it's any good in driving higher-end IEMs.

This works well for me :) Though the P1 also pairs really nicely with tubes - Little dot mk2

Those alone are around €200, while my budget for the DAC + AMP is going to be around that amount, if I decide to go for the P1. Currently, I don't have any other equipment that would really benefit from an AMP, this is why I am still thinking it through and weighing the options.
 
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aliquis

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That bad guy good reviews reviewed / mentioned some ~$50 amp.
So DAC + AMP.
There was some other which may had better spec too:
https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index/9038s
"Retail cost: TBD($70)
balanced output 2.5mm jack A&K pinout
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS .25% typical for SE Mode 24b/44.1kHz, almost only 2nd harmonic
Output power: >340mW@32Ohm@1kHz@THD=1%
Output power: >550mW@16Ohm@1kHz@THD=1%
S/N ratio: -122db(A) referenced to 3.399VRMS @32ohm THD+N = 1% @
+.5dbfs typical PC USB2 port powered
THD@1kHz@-3dbFS .0002% typical for Performance Mode 24b/44.1kHz@32Ohm
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS <.0004% typical for Performance Mode 24b/44.1kHz@32Ohm
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS <.0009% typical for Performance Mode 24b/44.1kHz@16Ohm
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS <.0004% typical for Normal Mode 24b/44.1kHz@32Ohm
Crosstalk: -125db@1kHz"
 
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My PC sound card is a Asus Xonar DS, I already hear slight hisses coming from it, so I don't think that it's any good in driving higher-end IEMs.



Those alone are around €200, while my budget for the DAC + AMP is going to be around that amount, if I decide to go for the P1. Currently, I don't have any other equipment that would really benefit from an AMP, this is why I am still thinking it through and weighing the options.
You can get a FiiO q1 MKII if you want a DAC/amp that is portable and won't break the bank (it also have bass boost), but then it would be interesting to buy also an mmcx 2.5 balanced cable to get the best out of it. Dragonfly Red is also within your budget, with better SQ but no bass boost and no dsd capabilities. You could also find an OPPO HA2SE in that price range...
 
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cenix

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That bad guy good reviews reviewed / mentioned some ~$50 amp.
So DAC + AMP.
There was some other which may had better spec too:
https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index/9038s
"Retail cost: TBD($70)
balanced output 2.5mm jack A&K pinout
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS .25% typical for SE Mode 24b/44.1kHz, almost only 2nd harmonic
Output power: >340mW@32Ohm@1kHz@THD=1%
Output power: >550mW@16Ohm@1kHz@THD=1%
S/N ratio: -122db(A) referenced to 3.399VRMS @32ohm THD+N = 1% @
+.5dbfs typical PC USB2 port powered
THD@1kHz@-3dbFS .0002% typical for Performance Mode 24b/44.1kHz@32Ohm
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS <.0004% typical for Performance Mode 24b/44.1kHz@32Ohm
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS <.0009% typical for Performance Mode 24b/44.1kHz@16Ohm
THD+N@1kHz@-3dbFS <.0004% typical for Normal Mode 24b/44.1kHz@32Ohm
Crosstalk: -125db@1kHz"
Thank you, I will take a look at this guy's YT channel.

You can get a FiiO q1 MKII if you want a DAC/amp that is portable and won't break the bank (it also have bass boost), but then it would be interesting to buy also an mmcx 2.5 balanced cable to get the best out of it. Dragonfly Red is also within your budget, with better SQ but no bass boost and no dsd capabilities. You could also find an OPPO HA2SE in that price range...
I see, that's interesting. You are sure that the MKII will be sufficient in driving the P1 yes? It would be nice to have something that has a bass boost, since I do like my bass. I just saw that the ATOM AMP does not have a bass boost option, so that's a bit of a disappointment. Regarding the 2.5mm balanced cable, I would need something like this yes?

If I am only looking for an AMP, would the Fiio A5 be enough to drive these? Furthermore, If you are familiar with the Micca OriGen G2 DAC/AMP, what are your thought about driving the P1 with that? It's around 100$, but I don't know if it's powerful enough, since it's only USB-powered. Nevermind, I just found out that the OriGen G2 is rather bad.

Btw, a thank you to everyone who has helped me understand these things. This community has been really helpful!
 
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roy_allan79

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The e1da powerdac v2 will be arriving this week. I'll keep you guys posted. But it's mainly for full size hp. It's sufficient for the p1 and the accompanying software has p1 eq presets and an amazing peq.

Maybe try the topping amps. Or the a3 by fiio. I had recently the a3 and its plenty powerful.
 
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cenix

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The e1da powerdac v2 will be arriving this week. I'll keep you guys posted. But it's mainly for full size hp. It's sufficient for the p1 and the accompanying software has p1 eq presets and an amazing peq.

Maybe try the topping amps. Or the a3 by fiio. I had recently the a3 and its plenty powerful.
I have the E11, which is pretty much the same as the A3, perhaps slight differences in SQ, but that's about it. I don't recall the A3 being more powerful than the older E11 (A3 is also called the E11K). If the A3 is powerful enough, so would the E11, I would imagine.

Regarding the E1da Powerdac V2, that one costs around 150$ right?
 
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aliquis

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I have the E11, which is pretty much the same as the A3, perhaps slight differences in SQ, but that's about it. I don't recall the A3 being more powerful than the older E11 (A3 is also called the E11K). If the A3 is powerful enough, so would the E11, I would imagine.

Regarding the E1da Powerdac V2, that one costs around 150$ right?
It do say TBD($50) on their page.
Supposedly it got hot though.
 
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The e1da powerdac v2 will be arriving this week. I'll keep you guys posted. But it's mainly for full size hp. It's sufficient for the p1 and the accompanying software has p1 eq presets and an amazing peq.

Maybe try the topping amps. Or the a3 by fiio. I had recently the a3 and its plenty powerful.
I can't stress this enough: the p1 needs full-size headphone power. I have an PowerDAC v2 on the way as well, it's less power than the two main amps that I use with the p1 now - and there's a good chance that I may just use it as a DAC+EQ with the iOS/Android App that can send a balanced single to my XCAN which will then drive the p1.
 
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I should get a PowerDAC v2 today. I am curious how well it will do compared to what I am using now (WM-1A w/ Oriolus BA300S). I will also give a short bit on whether or not it has enough kick for the P1s
 
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