[dennistdk]

So... I really don't want to pay for two streaming services. I like Spotify because it's integrated with Carplay, my Onkyo surround amplifier in my living room and almost any other device I have.
 
A year or two ago I started spending (too much) money on CIEM's, headphones, dacs and amps as most people on here. I wanted to get the best sound possible, so I switched to Tidal Lossless believing I could hear a difference.
 
For practical reasons I went back to Spotify about 6 months back (ease with CarPlay being the primary reason). But ever since switching back to Spotify I just thought I could hear some things missing. Like less dynamics, less sound stage etc. Probably all in my head.
 
So I switched to back Tidal again. I did a lot of testing between the two services (not blind, but just a lot of 5-10 seconds switching with each player with many different tracks). First of it's really hard to volume match - and I always picked Tidal as the best sounding one. But again - it could just be because I knew it was lossless.
 
And let me just say that it is pure hell switching back and forth between streaming services when you have tons of playlists, favourites etc.
 
Anyways - I really wanted to do some ABX-testing with the two services. I know that I would probably fail an ABX-test if I tried doing it myself with own high quality encodings (haven't tried it yet), but I often read on forums that people suspect Spotify of not using high quality encodings (some suggesting that the 320kps ogg are just re-encoded from a lesser bitrate when they introduced the premium subscription). So I needed to grab some samples from the players to do the blind test, but before that I wanted to inspect the grabs...
 
I just did the first "inspection" (and replicated it to be sure I wasn't wrong). And compared it to the CD version I had. The tracks should be the exact same ones (same version/mix/production/master/recording etc.).
 
The audio was recorded from Tidal and Spotify using Audio Hijack and compared in Audacity (all free programs, so anybody can try).
 

1. The Tidal version is 100% the same as the CD version. I found no differences at all.
2. Even though both Spotify and Tidal was at 100% volume - the Spotify track is lower in volume. Tidal has the same volume as the original CD. 
3. The Spotify track peaks at -3db  Tidal is at 0db (same as CD).
4. The Spotify track is further 3db lower on the right channel (so peaks at -3db left and -6db right). Don't know why there is a channel difference, but it is there.
5. The spotify track looses 1-2 samples per 30 seconds (when aligning the waveforms Spotify is behind) - maybe they are using a different sample rate or just an artifact of the compression or the recording I did (however it was the same 2nd time I tested).
6. When looking closely at the waveforms at non-peak level the Spotify track is usually "louder" than the Tidal track even though the Spotify track peaks below the Tidal track. This can almost only mean that the Spotify track is further loudness compressed loosing some dynamic.

 
So based on the initial findings I'm pretty sure I'll stick with Tidal for now, but I need to run a lot more tests with several different tracks as this one track (won't say which yet) could just be a bad rip from Spotify.
 
Some pictures:
 
First the sample length difference. Tidal on top, Spotify and then the CD.
 

 
 
Then the loudness (taken from a non-peaking part). Tidal is blue, Spotify red. 
 

 
 
Any thoughts? 
 
I'll try on some more tracks over the next couple of days doing the same tests. Maybe also test with Tidal's 320kps.

 

[willywill]

I wont pay monthly to stream music, most streaming service offer great deals such as $1 for 3 months,  $10 for 3 months if you have a Google Chromecast, Google always give free subscription for a few months. I don't need a graph i can hear the difference between Spoftify and Tidal, Tidal sound better now between Tidal and Google Play Music i can't hear any difference they sound the same

 

[FlavioWolff]

I'm interested. And chocked about the fact that almost nobody replied such a good post

 

[Energy]

Subscribed. I'm also in the same place deciding whether or not I should subscribe for Tidal or Spotify for on the go listening.

Are they two priced similar?

 

[mesospheric]

Subscribed. I'm also in the same place deciding whether or not I should subscribe for Tidal or Spotify for on the go listening.

Are they two priced similar?

Spotify and Tidal are both priced at $9.99 a month for 320kbps streaming. Tidal also the option of streaming Hi-Res audio for $19.99 a month.

For what it's worth, you get 50% off both services if you're a student and Tidal apparently has a 6 month free trial.

 

[Mkoll]

Tidal's app (desktop and mobile) is worse in a few respects. Tidal has a poorer selection, but there's still more than enough. But Tidal has lossless streaming that sounds better than Spotify if your gear can show it.

I switched from Spotify Premium to Tidal Hi Fi recently. I don't see myself going anywhere until a better lossless streaming service comes along.

 

[Energy]

Very interesting. So at $9.99 a month in regards to standard MP3 320kbps Spotify would be the recommended choice due to song availability, but once lossless becomes the main focus, Tidal takes the lead.

And with a 6 month free trial that is definitely enticing.

 

[theveterans]

As for post that shows Spotify being quieter than Tidal and CD, turn off that loudness equalization setting them all would be the same loudness as Tidal and CD

 

[project86]

I can't imagine not having Tidal. Whenever I find a missing song/album that it doesn't have, I console myself by playing one of the millions of other available tracks. I agree the app isn't always the best, but it's certainly not terrible either.

I'm pleased to hear that Spotify is considering a lossless tier. But unless they integrate into audiophile devices like Aurender and Auralic etc, as well as Roon, I won't be switching. Tidal plus Roon is the ultimate experience imho.

 

[dennistdk]

As for post that shows Spotify being quieter than Tidal and CD, turn off that loudness equalization setting them all would be the same loudness as Tidal and CD

It's almost a year ago since I made the original post, but all normalisation and equalisation was turned off in the Spotify client. Also that still doesn't explain why peaks are lower, but average higher - unless they use dynamic compression. After the post I tested a few more tracks and the conclusion was the same. Spotify has less dynamics because of the compression and the sample length doesn't add up fully (always 1-2 samples per 30 seconds when compares to CD/TIDAL).

I also compared TIDAL lossy vs. Spotify Premium. TIDAL still won (same length and no dynamic compression). So even if not going lossless you will still get higher quality and better dynamics with TIDAL.

 

[castleofargh]

I see nothing showing, or even considering if we're dealing with the same master. and that's quite a significant unknown, the kind to make a test irrelevant.

 

[dennistdk]

I see nothing showing, or even considering if we're dealing with the same master. and that's quite a significant unknown, the kind to make a test irrelevant.

True, but I tested 4-5 tracks with roughly the same result (different artists, albums and genres). I no longer have a Spotify subscription, but considering it again just to do some more tests.

 

[Odor trader]

It will be interesting to see if/when Spotify rolls out HiFi audio and how it compares to Tidal.

 

[chef8489]

I switched back to Tidal premium with military discount recently. I had switched to spotify because lack of selection and no masters support, but they have that sorted and much better selection now. Still once and a while I find I cant find things I am looking for, but I can go over to amazon and listen to lower quality if i really need to hear it that bad till I get the cd or buy.

 

[Odor trader]

I switched back to Tidal premium with military discount recently. I had switched to spotify because lack of selection and no masters support, but they have that sorted and much better selection now. Still once and a while I find I cant find things I am looking for, but I can go over to amazon and listen to lower quality if i really need to hear it that bad till I get the cd or buy.

Sometimes you might get lucky on bandcamp, too and can buy the FLAC version, etc.