[honestguvnor]

I am currently constrained to using headphones in order to listen to music in the evening and have been mainly using a pair Sennheiser HD600s which are comfortable enough but I still dislike the "in head" sensation. To be fair, the dislike has reduced from significant to mild but has hung around at mild for a year or so and I doubt it is going to go away.

Anyway, I briefly listened to a pair of Beyerdynamic headzone headphones this afternoon and it has got me thinking. Although a bit pricey, what I heard seemed to be a signficant step in the right direction although not quite right. Unfortunately, I was heading elsewhere and did not have the time to really try to sort out what I was listening to, what the system was doing and what I can/cannot fix and so I am asking people here for their thoughts and experiences with the system?

Also, how comfortable is the DT880 for long listening?

 

[Ruckus]

From Endgadget..

Says if I'm watching a movie and I turn my head away, the sound will still be straight ahead. That makes sense.

But for music. How is that going to be different? And do you want the sound of your music to change everytime you turn your head.

I turn my head a lot with headphones on, I don't think I'd want the sound to change everytime I turn my head.

What a great idea though from Beyer.

 

[kwkarth]

Sony pulled this off much more elegantly many years ago. Too bad Beyerdynamic decided to use the relatively crude ultrasonic method of determining head rotation.

 

[honestguvnor]

> How is that going to be different?

The instruments stay where they should be like with speakers rather than moving around with your head like traditional headphones. This aspect worked fairly well although you could not move your head too far. The system is also binaural or, at least, binauralish given that the transfer function of my head was not a parameter.

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by honestguvnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, how comfortable is the DT880 for long listening?

A good bit more comfortable than your Senns actually... assuming you're not sweating too much.
Of course, this stuff is quite personal: not only is is subjective but our heads are shaped differently and so on.

 

[jirams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by honestguvnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am currently constrained to using headphones in order to listen to music in the evening and have been mainly using a pair Sennheiser HD600s which are comfortable enough but I still dislike the "in head" sensation. To be fair, the dislike has reduced from significant to mild but has hung around at mild for a year or so and I doubt it is going to go away. Anyway, I briefly listened to a pair of Beyerdynamic headzone headphones this afternoon and it has got me thinking. Although a bit pricey, what I heard seemed to be a signficant step in the right direction although not quite right. Unfortunately, I was heading elsewhere and did not have the time to really try to sort out what I was listening to, what the system was doing and what I can/cannot fix and so I am asking people here for their thoughts and experiences with the system? Also, how comfortable is the DT880 for long listening?

DT880 are the most comfortable phones I have ever used.

Try an amp with Crossfeed - this may help the headphone experienence - for details of Crossfeed see Meier Audio website.

IanR

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by honestguvnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif The system is also binaural or, at least, binauralish given that the transfer function of my head was not a parameter.

?!?
Your head's transfer function isn't necessary for binaural... what's needed is a binaural recording (it'll work with any decent headphone system). Or failing that, a DSP... I guess that's what they do but then it's not the whole system that's binauralish, it's the DAC/amp/whatever. You can do something similar with Dolby Headphones for instance... ever tried it?

For that matter, ever tried a regular DT880? In my experience, it alleviates the "in the head" issue. Reportedly other headphones are better at alleviating this. Ever looked into those?

 

[JensL]

The Headtracker function isn't that important, I think. Maybe that's why you can buy the consumer version without it.

What's important is the fantastic out-of-the-head sensation. It's not like some silly reverb-effect, it just moves the soundstage in front of you. It's nothing like crossfeed either.

Being used to "regular" headphones, it was a little strange using the Headzone, but after using it a while, and hitting the bypass button, it was almost disappointing going back to the "regular". Even with stereo music. Movies was almost unlistenable in stereo after experiencing the Headzone.

I'm really hoping to hear the consumer Headzone soon. It can be very interesting (and expensive).

 

[HFat]

Sounds like DH... or DH done well rather.

 

[honestguvnor]

Good to see the DT880 getting votes for comfort. Thanks for that.

Concerning the head motion, it seemed to work but the binaural was not quite right and so I cannot have confidence in what was working well and what was not. The source was unknown and must be considered a possible, if not probable, factor in any observations.

Concerning the transfer function for the head, these vary significantly from person to person and therefore must be taken into account in a "correct" binaural system. It did not appear to be a parameter indicating that the system was not attempting to be the full monty. In the couple of minutes I messed about listening to the system I only once got an image to momentarily flip to the back of the head. It was by no means a bad approximation of my personal binaural system but it was not quite right. It seemed better than most of the binaural files I have downloaded off the internet for example.

I was posting to find other peoples experiences of the system but have just found out that the home system is new and it is only the pro system that has been around for a while. Hopefully?

 

[m00hk00h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like DH... or DH done well rather.

More like the later if you ask me. But even better. There is no kind of "hall" or "reverb" effect to create the listening room in which the viirtual speakers a positioned.
I tested the Headzone Home system with the podracing scene of Episode I...it was just GREAT. Even a good made music DVD sounded just like it should, there is virtually no coloration as there is when using DH. information from behind just came from behind and centered events were not located IN the head. But I can imaginge that it won't work for persons whose HRTFs won't fit. I know from binaural recordings made that my HRTFs are compatible with the "average" ear.
I was really convinced by the Headzone Pro but there are a lot of adjustments that have to be made by help of a PC that just needn't be made with the HZ Home.

The Heazone Home is just so much better for watching movies or music DVDs because you can adjust everything that is needed within secons directly on the amp.
The "head-turn" feature is in my eyes not necessary for watching DVDs.

Oh and by the way: it's got an equalization for the DT770 if you prefer that. The HRTF-processing wouldn't work so good with the different frequency response of the DT770.

But how usefull are written words... you have to hear it to believe it...unfortunately it's so expensive!

m00h

 

[Vul Kuolun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like DH... or DH done well rather.

Done well, and, kinda expensive.

Is there really nobody except me beeing pissed about the price?

I may be naive, but come on, isn't this basically a BAP 1000 for 5 Channels instead of two, plus some highly customizable reverb-DSP? I mean, what was the computing power of the BAP 1000 worth at it's time (one word: 486), and what is this computing power worth today?

I can understand Beyer put some serious research into this, but come on. 2000 bucks. Huh.

Maybe it was just that when i hear "consumer" as in "consumer version", i spontaniously think of some guy pushing a shopping cart through wal-mart.

 

[honestguvnor]

> HFat: For that matter, ever tried a regular DT880? In my experience, it
> alleviates the "in the head" issue.

Apart from a few minutes yesterday no. Physics would seem to be against it being a significant improvement but I will check it out.

> JensL: I'm really hoping to hear the consumer Headzone soon. It can be very
> interesting (and expensive).

This was the consumer version at IFA. It is expensive.

> HFat: Sounds like DH... or DH done well rather.

Yes there are various systems around and they are distinguished primarily by how well they are implemented. DH is presumably Dolby Headphone which is a system I have heard working well.

> mOOhkOOh: The "head-turn" feature is in my eyes not necessary for
> watching DVDs.

An interesting comment. This seemed to be important to me but I only used the system briefly for a couple of minutes and so cannot reliably point out what was working well and what was not. Can I presume you are comfortable with sound from headphones in a way that I am not?

> Vul Kuolun: Is there really nobody except me beeing pissed about the price?

Since it appears to be a less than full solution to what I want then yes the price is probably too much. If it was a full solution then I would pay it.

> Vul Kuolun: I may be naive, but come on, isn't this basically a BAP 1000
> for 5 Channels instead of two, plus some highly customizable reverb-DSP?
> I mean, what was the computing power of the BAP 1000 worth at it's time
> (one word: 486), and what is this computing power worth today?

I doubt the processing cost has much to do with the price being charged. It is a product made in low volumes and targetted at the expensive end of the market.

 

[m00hk00h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by honestguvnor /img/forum/go_quote.gif > mOOhkOOh: The "head-turn" feature is in my eyes not necessary for > watching DVDs. An interesting comment. This seemed to be important to me but I only used the system briefly for a couple of minutes and so cannot reliably point out what was working well and what was not. Can I presume you are comfortable with sound from headphones in a way that I am not?

May be. But when your are watching TV or a DVD you would normally look in the direction of the TV, right?

m00h

 

[honestguvnor]

> May be. But when your are watching TV or a DVD you would normally look in
> the direction of the TV, right?

I may have misunderstood the thrust of your point. I was not distinguishing between listening to music and watching movies. I rarely do the latter and did not look at the TV screen which was playing when I briefly tested the system.

Having said that, people do make small head movements when sitting down and having the sound sources moving around with the head is unnatural and I would expect it to be a continual mild intrusion for many people. But I have not tested this for myself and so this is speculation. What might make it more "natural" is wearing headphones a lot hence my question.