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Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by purrin, Dec 5, 2013.
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  1. BassDigger
    Try a search for enob. Effective Number of Bits
     
  2. BassDigger
     
    This post is quite informative.
     
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff/5640#post_11662900
     
    But the main discussion was, as mentioned, a few pages earlier (somewhere [​IMG] ).
     
    RoundRound likes this.
  3. jcx
    actually https://www.xiph.org/video/ is a popular suggestion - I know Monty, he knows his stuff - but I'm allergic to video and already fairly expert in the subject so I never watched all the way through
     
    some make a big deal of distinguishing between upsampling and oversampling - the context should make it clear and unless you haven't any other points to score I'd ignore "misuse" if the rest was correct
     
  4. Wildcatsare1
    Have a Monarchy 22B on the way. Had a similar question about the PCM63 versus the PCM1704. Is the 63 a better sounding DAC chip, Mr. Poon said he would send me 1704s if I wanted to upgrade to 24 bits from the current 20. Good or bad idea?

    Edit: Plenty of info on the 22B, but none on the upgrade (is it one?).
     
  5. Head1
    Do you mean the UD-501?
     
    HA-501 is an amp.
     
  6. diamondears
    @KeithEmo Great posts.
     
  7. thegunner100
     
    Stick with the PCM63s. 1704 is a downgrade. 
     
    Wildcatsare1 likes this.
  8. DreamKing
     
    Hi,
     
    Interesting. Seems really conclusive. On what dac with socketed chips did you compare them and in what ways is the 1704 a downgrade?
     
  9. Sapientiam
    Typical low level linearity's worse for the PCM1704 (+/- 0.5dB @ -90dB) vs PCM63 (+/- 0.3dB @ -90dB) which is rather odd considering the PCM1704 has 4 more bits.
     
  10. DreamKing
    My question was more if anyone could hear audible differences between them, on the same dac and setup but I guess the measurements speak loudly. The extra 4 bits appear to give the PCM1704 110, 112 dB dynamic range vs the different iteration of the PCM63's 100, 104, 108 dB DR. All of this as well as the 0.2 dB difference in low level linearity you mentioned are audibly transparent to human hearing though.
     
    Are there any significant differences to human hearing in the measurements of the two chips?
     
    From a quick look at the specs, they appear to mean that swapping out one chip for the other would be a waste of time for audible differences. So the rest of the dac would be of more importance. Safe assessment? 
     
  11. Jones Bob
    The ICs are not pin for pin interchangeable. They are totally different packages.
     
  12. DreamKing
    Apparently, you can swap the PCM63 for the PCM1704 in the Monarchy 22B some way. 
    http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff/5850#post_11688338
     
  13. Sapientiam
     
    Those DR figures aren't apples to apples. Note in the small print that A-weighting is adopted for the PCM1704 - this normally makes the figure around 2dB better than an unweighted measurement.
     
  14. DreamKing
     
    There's one mention of A-weighting for the PCM63's SNR in notes, no other weighting mentions though.
     
    When does Burr-Brown not apply A-weighting for these figures? It's an industry standard too, so what other weighting should be assumed, from the same tech company?
     
  15. Sapientiam
    I'd not assume A-weighting, unless its explicitly mentioned. The PCM63 only has its idle channel SNR measured with an A-weight filter (note 6 in the table), all other measurements don't mention weighting so it would be fair to assume unweighted.
     
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