Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)
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immersifi

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You're in the wrong thread - and probably the wrong forum - for a discussion like that. My understanding is that purrin's rankings are entirely subjective - initially, he did confer with others before he started trying to rank each of the DAC but by the time he got to the vintage R2R designs I believe it was a case of 'this is the best, forget the rest' : he has since climbed down from that lofty stance slightly but most of the recommendations now are along the lines of 'if you cant afford Yggy or you're not willing to wait, these are your options'. I know I'm putting words in someone else's mouth, but the posts are there for those who feel I'm being liberal with the facts. 
 
I havent ventured into Sound Science for a very long time - its more 'Mad Science' in many of the threads - but that's where you may find more pertinent discussions of the topics you seem to be focussed on. 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science
Thanks. That's really all that I wanted to know (that this thread is entirely subjective and down to opinion). Again, I am not denigrating peoples' opinions, I was merely looking for clarification as to the assertions that were made.
 
Many Thanks,
 
Mark (immersifi)
 
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post-11509864
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Articnoise

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You're in the wrong thread - and probably the wrong forum - for a discussion like that. My understanding is that purrin's rankings are entirely subjective - initially, he did confer with others before he started trying to rank each of the DAC but by the time he got to the vintage R2R designs I believe it was a case of 'this is the best, forget the rest' : he has since climbed down from that lofty stance slightly but most of the recommendations now are along the lines of 'if you cant afford Yggy or you're not willing to wait, these are your options'. I know I'm putting words in someone else's mouth, but the posts are there for those who feel I'm being liberal with the facts. 
 
I havent ventured into Sound Science for a very long time - its more 'Mad Science' in many of the threads - but that's where you may find more pertinent discussions of the topics you seem to be focussed on. 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science

 

That was a good one “Mad Science”!


 
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post-11509884
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Liu Junyuan

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You should be the one defending it.  If you like it, that's all that matters.  :-D 

Hehe you are correct, totally. To be honest, I have defended and recommended it a lot, but since I lack the experience of other higher end DACs, I sort of rely on comparisons to make sense of how DACs stand up. But it is true that I do enjoy my Gungnir and that is all that matters.
 
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jexby

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Hehe you are correct, totally. To be honest, I have defended and recommended it a lot, but since I lack the experience of other higher end DACs, I sort of rely on comparisons to make sense of how DACs stand up. But it is true that I do enjoy my Gungnir and that is all that matters.
 
as a used Gungnir USB gen2 fell in my lap last week, can't be more happy with it at the moment.  Wyrd in the chain also.
Gung replaced a Concero HD at home, and will eventually have a shoot out with Pulse X Infinity one day this summer.
 
won't claim to own Purrin's experience or ears, and have only heard Yggy for 10min at RMAF 2014-
can't afford Yggy nor want it's elephant size in a small computer / listening room.
 
what Gungnir immediately brought to my ears was "realism".   an audiophile term? nah.   but with familiar songs, if the DAC places me in the room/space, with soundstage, presence and musicality- WHAM, I'm sold.
is Gungnir perhaps the most detailed, or most accurate?  maybe not according to what I've read here.  
yet don't feel Gungnir is a slug in those departments either. 
 
was not hesitant to buy a used Gungnir as I believe Mike/Jason/Schiit will provide update boards for DAC and Analog sections at some random day in the future.
pricing, features and value of such potential upgrades all TBD.
 
and, Lyr 2 doesn't look completely silly sitting on top of Gungnir either. or does it?
 
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post-11509930
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mikek200

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  Also if you search the Art of Sound forums there are some British chaps who liken the Theta DAC to American-made quality with testosterone fueled sound. It has balls, it makes music sound real with more slam than some people like for their setups. Yes they mentioned testosterone like this is some kind of manly DAC
HHMMMM,just wondering
 
What would the shipping charge be like,shipping a Theta to NY,from Europe??
 
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wahsmoh

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  HHMMMM,just wondering
 
What would the shipping charge be like,shipping a Theta to NY,from Europe??

I'd estimate anywhere from $50-80. I wouldn't know how much shipping costs, I bought mine from a pawn shop dealer who hadn't the slightest clue of how to upsell the product. So the Theta I bought flew under the radar basically. I got it with free shipping from Florida to California. That is a major bargain, they also packaged it with a TON of bubble wrap and packing peanuts and I can assure you it was safe and unscathed (the box was battered, clueless USPS folks)
 
..the price $276. Greatest $276 I have ever spent on anything
 
sad to say I think we have all payed more to fix our cars at one time or another
 
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kugino

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I don't see how any of the "tests" done on these DACs can be anything but subjective and, therefore, comments about good or bad are purely in the eye of the beholder. too many people here are hanging on every little breath of this person or that person. sure, it's nice to hear about perceived differences between DACs that one might not have heard, but really, it's ok to like what you like, even if it might not be the "popular" choice.
 
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mikek200

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I don't see how any of the "tests" done on these DACs can be anything but subjective and, therefore, comments about good or bad are purely in the eye of the beholder. too many people here are hanging on every little breath of this person or that person. sure, it's nice to hear about perceived differences between DACs that one might not have heard, but really, it's ok to like what you like, even if it might not be the "popular" choice.
Kugino,you have to admit,that some of us newbie vintage dac people, rely on what guys like Purrin has to say,& now,today..Conquerator2 ..
IMHO,excellent info,and I study it hard,and probably 90 % of the time,make my purchases,what they say,and others ,who have the dacs,I am looking to buy..
No,they don't have my ears,and they don't listen to my type of music,but still they give out honest,good info
Purrin's info on p.1 of this thread is my Bible..& read it constantly.
 
YMMV..
 
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Stillhart

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As in all aspects of this hobby, the best way to tell is to listen for yourself.  
 
Unfortunately, once you start getting into very expensive or very rare components, that becomes difficult.  It's for those reasons that impressions like Purrin's or Conq's are useful.  
 
I fully plan on doing a write-up of the Adcom vs the Theta and possibly vs the DAC-19 and NFB-28.  Hopefully it will help some folks down the line.  
 
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mikek200

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  As in all aspects of this hobby, the best way to tell is to listen for yourself.  
 
Unfortunately, once you start getting into very expensive or very rare components, that becomes difficult.  It's for those reasons that impressions like Purrin's or Conq's are useful.  
 
I fully plan on doing a write-up of the Adcom vs the Theta and possibly vs the DAC-19 and NFB-28.  Hopefully it will help some folks down the line.  
And he is supplying us all,with free POPCORN!!!
Super!!
 
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post-11510399
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Argo Duck

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I agree with what you wrote but 'entirely subjective' might be a little strong. I (cautiously) think there may be some validity and statistical power in opinions found in this thread and in these forums generally. That is, these opinions' ability to determine a better DAC or whatever is better than one would obtain from a purely random selection.

It sure would be interesting to see some well done research looking into 'the audiophile experience' - but it's not a hot research topic AFAIK. There is a phenomenology here backed up by a loose, shared vocabulary among audiophiles that poses some interesting questions in terms of what objective correlates might be discoverable.

Indeed, our thread-starter purrin spent quite a lot of time in past years conducting CSD plots and looking (informally I think) at what correlates he and his fellow listeners could and could not establish. Purrin is most certainly not an outright subjectivist; rather he seems interested in exactly these broader questions. But also in enjoying the music :wink:

Thanks. That's really all that I wanted to know (that this thread is entirely subjective and down to opinion). Again, I am not denigrating peoples' opinions, I was merely looking for clarification as to the assertions that were made.

Many Thanks,

Mark (immersifi)
 
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olegausany

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 Hold your horses, there is still a chance in the future that Gungnir and Bifrost Uber will go through another set of upgrades. Then you will feel unloyal and sad when they both end up becoming R2R DACs.
 
Don't count on it, but Mike did mention something about the loyal Theta customers who stuck around long enough to upgrade to version A. I got a version A Progeny and I am not an original owner, just lucky the original owner sent it back in.
 
Both the Gungnir and Bifrost are listed as "future-proof". I take Schiit at their word.
Where are those upgraded?
 
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olegausany

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But for the price, is the Gungnir the best DAC I can get right now (I mean, a new one) ? 
 
I know it is a question on which we can debate for long and that has a lot of variable to consider, but item makes 2 weeks I'm trying to convince myself to push the button for this DAC. 
 
I saw Audio-GD products too, but with import tax and shipping, it will roughly cost more than a Gungnir which is made in USA and duty free with NAFTA (I live in Canada). And by preference, I prefer to get something made in USA.
 
I would have took the Bifrost, but everyonee seems to upgrade for the Gungnir here ! So I'll directly buy the Gungnir and keep it the longest possible. 
You can upgrade to irDac
 
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estreeter

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I don't see how any of the "tests" done on these DACs can be anything but subjective and, therefore, comments about good or bad are purely in the eye of the beholder. too many people here are hanging on every little breath of this person or that person. sure, it's nice to hear about perceived differences between DACs that one might not have heard, but really, it's ok to like what you like, even if it might not be the "popular" choice.
 
+1. 
 
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Where are those upgraded?

Patience, I suspect there is some Schiity goodness in store in the near future. It has been a while since the Gungnir was designed, and there have been some meaningful advances in DAC design so you can bet Schiit will respond soon enough. They don't just say something for pure marketing so upgradeable means upgradeable.
 
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