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Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by purrin, Dec 5, 2013.
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  1. hans030390
     
    Are you saying the extra balls in the bass is less neutral than what you'd get from the Bifrost? How are you sure that's just not closer to how it should sound? Usually the best DACs will have excellent slam and power in the bass while still being clean, textured, and having good pitch differentiation.
     
  2. wahsmoh

    Hans I think you are right. The slam of the Theta DS Pro Progeny is greater than that of the Bifrost Uber, that includes basically all the percussion instruments I was hearing; not just bass instruments / electronic bass. It is just as revealing as the Bifrost Uber because I noticed the same digital artifacts on my less-than-perfect masterings and no traces of digital artifacts on my best recordings. In other words it doesn't just glance over the music like a lot of "warmer" sounding DACs.
     
  3. ciphercomplete
     
    Yeah like a truckload of used $1500+ DACs will be for sell soon.
     
  4. wahsmoh
    We can't help it we just want the latest and greatest [​IMG]
     
  5. barid
     
    Actually just got a Bifrost Uber last Friday and have spent the last few days with it.  I'd say bass is "ever-present" yet doesn't seem to go as low or be as punchy as the benchmark 2 or whatever burr brown implementation is in the MHA100 (only 2 other DACs I have on hand right now).  It imparts a very meaty full-bodied up-front sound on basically everything yet can also sometimes come off as almost flat/condensed in a way where its not extending to the extreme highs or lows, or maybe I'm just missing some of the air between the notes.  Or I could just not be used to the signature yet....whatevs.
     
  6. wahsmoh

    I have the same feelings as you. I think that is where the Theta DAC I have that uses the Burr Brown PCM67P-k and a single Motorala DSP56001 imparts it's main strengths. The Bifrost is definitely warm and full bodied but the Theta DAC is almost like having an analog bass boost(for songs with bass) as well as sounding smoother in the highs than the Bifrost Uber (slightly though and not as big of a difference as the bass factor)
     
    also.. the soundstage. The Bifrost Uber is focused and has moderate sized soundstage with good instrument separation, but the Theta DS Pro Progeny has something special about it that I can't put my finger on.. it sounds more 3D where the back to-L/R-to front of the Bifrost Uber isn't as mesmerizing. Last night I stayed up til 2 AM listening to it, I couldn't sleep
     
  7. Insidious Meme
    I know purrin is on to something. I'm guessing it has been alluded to in a previous post. But I'll just have to wait and see like everyone else.
     
  8. prot

    Interesting one, I'll have a try next time I visit home :)


    Rumor says ~$630. Havent tried any of their Dacs but quite happy with the u12 usb-spdif
     
  9. Sorrodje
     
     
    Match definitely with my Experience with the totalDAC vs other DAC i know. More Slam, more resolution , more inner detail, more everything. Less forgiving too.   A bit more expensive than your progeny though [​IMG]
     
  10. prot
    Did anyone try the new Hegel midrange Dac? http://www.hegel.com/products/dac/hd12
    AKM chip and at about $1400 sounds like a good candidate for the anti-sabre brigade ... some review links on the right side of their page.
     
  11. korzena
    I would like to upgrade my Bifrost DAC in order to get more from my LCD-2.2 headphones. 
     
    At the moment I am considering Resonessence Labs Concero HD, Meier Audio Daccord and Gungnir. I would appreciate advice regarding these DACs or other DAC recommendations within my budget of $1000/€1000 for my system. Thanks!
     
  12. Yoga

    Thanks - I happen to own one of those, worked a treat in both my systems!
     
  13. purrin
     
    In the overall scheme of things, Bifrost Uber lacks a little at the extremes, doesn't punch or throw bass as well well, and is a tiny bit grainy / unrefined on the top end. Just nitpicking. A DAC like the Gungnir solves these issues, but the Gungnir is no better in terms of resolution.
     
    Because of the Motorola DSP56001, I believe the Progeny has the "secret sauce" digital filter (maybe a scaled down version) of what's found in the GenIII, Gen V and Yggy. It is this digital filter that gives you the 3D, front-to-back, up-and-down, sense of venue effect. You will be surprised by the holographic imaging for months if not years on end. You will never tire of it. In fact, you will think that almost any DAC without it has sucky imaging and you will be forced to only want to buy stuff made by Mike Moffat with the "secret sauce" filter. Doubters like Arnaud believe the "secret sauce", closed-form, divide-by-zero, retains original samples, digital filter is marketing BS, but as you have experienced, it is very very real.
     
    The PCM67 is interesting. It's an R2R for the 10 LSB at 18-bit linearity and delta-sigma 1-bit for the remaining bits.
     
    You got a great deal on this. Looking for one myself based on curiosity. I didn't realize that Theta/Moffat trickled down their Gen V tech to such an extent.
     
    wahsmoh likes this.
  14. drfindley
     
    This gives me hope that Yggy filter will make it into cheaper tech. I'm planning on getting a Yggy, but I listen to music in more than one place and buying a Yggy for all of them? Spendy.
     
  15. AustinValentine
     
    My experience with this is actually what makes me hopeful about Yggy tech trickling down the product line in the future. That's a spot on description of the digital filter. I've cycled through a number of PCM63 and PCM1702 DACs using DF1700P and PMD100 and none of them have sounded as good as the Progeny yet. Pretty damn impressive overall. 
     
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