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Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by purrin, Dec 5, 2013.
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  1. purrin
    There's a moderate path. I like to see measurements, but if they don't correlate to what i hear, I won't bother with them.
     
    There's a lot of stuff that makes no sense. Like why do CD transports have their own sound? Or What does the Wyrd work?
     
  2. Yoga
     
    Well said. I have a Masters in Advanced Comp Sci (digital data storage and transport being a key element), and also a background in psychology/neurology/physics, and one thing is certain; regardless of objective measurements, the observer influences the outcome
     
    In the same way a sugar pill (placebo) can heal a disease, a USB cable - or even a crystal sitting atop a dac - can influence the observers perception. The senses (in this case hearing), and how our personality (mind) perceives them, is not objective. It's subjective and open to variation. Not just from person to person, but also within a single person. Countless studies have been performed in this area over the years. That's a profound notion that the vast majority who argue online are not aware of.
     
    People are - quite literally - wired differently, and if they want to hear a change, they will (or not). It's also impossible to prove (or not) what - and more importantly, how - someone hears (or sees, or tastes) differently to you. Hence arguing about objective numbers, waves and specs is rather fruitless :¬)
     
    Enjoy what you enjoy, and let others enjoy what they enjoy. Everyone wins.
     
  3. drez
    I think that a lot of people are aware of the frailties of human perception, however in this hobby we need to learn to work with it, and even trust it enough not to immediately dismiss observations which seem to fall outside what we expect. In most cases it's all we have to go off, untill we find a way to measure the phenomenon that correlates to our observations, or else our observation changes (more often than not these days, my observation does not change, but rather the way I interpret and classify what I hear). Even where there is objective data, we need to understand how that correlates to a listening experience, or whether the measurements are adequate.
     
    negura likes this.
  4. Clemmaster
     
    Stereophile published an article about that. The transport's sound seemed to correlate with the jitter profile of its output.
    Meaning that a given transport would sort of impose its jitter profile (its own sound character)  to the different DACs (as measured at their output), to some degree. That degree depends on the DAC's own jitter reduction capacity.
     
    I thought it was interesting.
     
  5. reddog
    +1 extremely interesting, CD transport can manifest its jitter profile, very interesting indeed. Would like to see a mathematical model explain it.
     
  6. Tachikoma
    If a measurement doesn't correlate with observation, you're probably measuring the wrong quantity.
     
  7. coli
    LOL, yes, the O2/ODAC, I highly recommend that "thing" to anyone who believe in measurements. It's amazing how that things takes away all emotions from songs...
     
  8. nicolo
    Emotions in songs[​IMG] Are you kidding with that subjectivist crap?
     
    The only purpose of songs is to see how components measure. That's it.
     
  9. mikek200
    Brother,you may want to get your ears checked.
     
    I used the 02 & the HD600,with the Yulong DA8 dac,for over a year,and I found it very neutral,and worked on almost all of my other headphones
    I had some long,very enjoyable, listening sessions with the above combo
    It is also,rated ,as one of the top amp/dacs on head-fi.
     
  10. coli
    I was talking about the O2/ODAC combo. It does not surprise me that guy went into hiding, lol.
     
    Also I hope the Soekris doesn't suffer the same fate, I already found a couple posts complaining about the sound.
     
  11. Hansotek
    In the context of the last few comments, that sounds like textbook confirmation bias to me. A lot of people say that about the O2/ODAC - but in my experience listening to the actual equipment, I haven't found that to be true at all.
     
  12. mikek200
    Yes,I was talking about the 02+odac as well
     
  13. prot

    Same here. That combo simply sounds neutral. It doesnt take anything off your music it just plays whatever it receives. May be too bright with some cans but that's not exactly its fault. Sounds very good with darker cans like senn 650.
    Not so many ppl like neutral though. And that's ok. But to say that the Odac suks simply because you dont like neutral sound is not ok.
     
  14. mikek200
    Some amps give some musical color to the music,some headphones do the same thing.
    I for one ,try to stay with what the original music,that came off the CD.,
    I prefer a neutral SQ.
     
    It's all a matter of personnel taste,I let my ears tell me what is good,and what is,not so good.
     
    I apologize ,if my above comment was taken the wrong way,.
     
    Mike
     
  15. skeptic

     
    Thanks for the reply!  I've been following along in the other thread and will most likely try my hand at the build at some point, although it sounds like it will be a long term effort to do a first rate job of it.  I understand from MR that to really optimize the build, he highly recommends participating in some upcoming GB's for reflector-D boards to power the i2s source and +3v isolators, plus an additional regulated +-12v supply for the rest of the board.  
     
    If you happen to have a chance to hear one in the meanwhile, would love to hear your thoughts on it.  I'd expect you are right that the yaggy will be better overall, but I would be delighted if the ultimate conclusion was that a proper soekris build outclasses most of the widely recommended sigma delta options.
     
    Quote:
     
     Look forward to reading about it when you've got yours up and running!  You went with the 2% board right?
     
     
    Totally agree!  When I saw those photos, I started kicking myself for throwing out an old Tivo last year that probably would have made for a super easy chassis.  If you're willing to forego fancy power supplies, I'm not sure lack of comfort with soldering would be a big hindrance to you actually.  The dac board is premade, and you can run it straight off an ac trafo, with something like an amanero usb (also fully soldered/assembled), that draws power from usb and outputs the other 3v you need to feed the isolators.  All you're really talking about is running the wires that connect these pieces together, connecting the inputs and outputs, and the trafo to the IEC inlet and power switch.  If I could find a usb to i2s board that was like the amanero, but gave you the option of running off an external supply, I would probably try the simple version first and then decide about whether or not to go whole hog on three regulated psu's.   
     
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