[Inkmo]

"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes...."

You'll try to fix anything if the mechanism is sufficiently weird, won't you?

What stock is there really in watts/channel, as the emphasis the car audio set seems to invest in it seems misplaced. I know my receiver is probably 50 sumfin' per channel, and it'll practically tear the walls down at just half volume.

On that note, what it is really that determines what what can drive how loud? voltage swing?

there's my public n00bery for the night.
g'night folks!

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkmo You'll try to fix anything if the mechanism is sufficiently weird, won't you?

Yes, because when I was a tad, home audio was still struggling mightily to get down flat to 20Hz on the bottom and straining to get all the way out flat to 20kHz on the top. It wasn't a given, even with amplifiers, much less with something like headphones or-- keep this in mind when listening to most vintage recordings-- microphones. And don't let the vintage speaker crowd tell you any lies either, although with modern amps the old KLHs and ARs can sound okay. No, this stuff almost always needed help, like the standard motorcar circa 1910. So the first thing you do is crank up the EQ to see what's what. I think folks who consider the K340 or the HD 650 "hard to drive" would be shocked-- shocked!-- to see what's required to make the SE-500 sound like something. This is my attitude toward all headphones and speakers in the real world. Unless they're exceptional, they all need some help. I'm willing to meet them halfway.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkmo What stock is there really in watts/channel. I know my receiver is probably 50 sumfin' per channel, and it'll practically tear the walls down at just half volume.

Good point, because it's too infrequently pointed out that there's loud, and then there's clean loud, which sounds entirely different. What many people perceive as loud is "It's too loud-- it's distorted-- I gotta turn it down. Therefore I know it's loud." in the same way that they perceive "fast" in a car as "I'm having to hold the wheel in both hands and the noise and vibration is stressing me to my limits" which is altogether different from fast on the Autobahn in a big Mercedes.

So "tearing the walls down" might be clean loud, but somehow the description connotes something else. Receivers are good enough for a lotta things, but they don't usually meet the criterion of "clean all the way to clipping with any load" . Tube amps have that wattage-grace bestowed upon them that makes a flea-powered amp still sound good well into clipping because they clip so softly. They... fade... gradually... into.. "too loud". SS amps, on the other hand, depending on the power supply, hit a wall and then start spraying harmonics. There's a break point. Since they can be made to put out high power more easily than tube amps can, they get around the break point by being powerful enough to hit it only infrequently.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkmo On that note, what it is really that determines what what can drive how loud? voltage swing?

Voltage swing, current reserve, power supply ESR, the ability of an output stage to handle difficult (read: reactive as opposed to resistive) loads without panic.. All that and more. There is no single figure of merit. You might as well ask how a bike will ride based on whether the tubes are Presta or Schrader.

EricJ is the guy to ask about the details.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkmo g'night folks!

[waves like an idiot] 'night, Inkmo! ...There he goes, brave lad...

.

 

[ericj]

This just in: If the ball bearings in the sliders on your Pioneer headphones have gotten rusty, like mine, and then rolled off the desk to parts unknown, like mine, just stop by your favorite bicycle shop and pick up a pair of 5/32" ball bearings - they work great and cost a nickel each.

 

[jack_hobday]

hey,

just got a pair of pioneer se 700's in the post, any idea on what will drive them?

ive got a portable Fiio E5 headphone amplifier, any hope that will work using an ipod nano???

jack

 

[jageur272]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack_hobday /img/forum/go_quote.gif hey, just got a pair of pioneer se 700's in the post, any idea on what will drive them? ive got a portable Fiio E5 headphone amplifier, any hope that will work using an ipod nano??? jack

Noooo, that will not work. They represent an enormously inefficient load. Based on the SE-500, you're gonna need a dedicated full-sized head amp (or even using a transformer hooked up to speaker outs).

 

[wualta]

While you won't need a transformer, running the SE-700 from the speaker outs of a high-quality speaker amp is something even Pioneer recommended (via their JB-21 headphone resistor network). But the headphone out of a good integrated amp or power amp will work nicely. I've run mine from the headphone jack of an old Kyocera receiver with no trouble.

 

[Absorbine_Sr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta /img/forum/go_quote.gif While you won't need a transformer, running the SE-700 from the speaker outs of a high-quality speaker amp is something even Pioneer recommended (via their JB-21 headphone resistor network). But the headphone out of a good integrated amp or power amp will work nicely. I've run mine from the headphone jack of an old Kyocera receiver with no trouble.

At the recent Michigan meet, wualta's SE-700's ran quite nicely from both my HiFiMan EF5 and my Zana Deux. Now the Zana may be a bit steep in price but the EF5 from Head Direct is not too bad.

A_Sr.

 

[jack_hobday]

Reading the comments made about the product manual, it says its impedance in 8 ohms, if its hard to drive, wouldn't that number be much greater? If I've miss understood what it means, please correct me

thanks

 

[Deep Funk]

Lovely thread, regarding amps for old Pioneers: my 1981 Yamaha MA 10 powered the old Pioneer Monitor 10 quite good. My Philips CD690 playing 'Don't Worry, If There's A Hell Bellow...' by Curtis Mayfield works perfectly with the old Pioneers, no clipping either. The sound is very clear and the bass sounds very good indeed. Bass sounds fuller and better defined.

8 ohms makes it easy to power through old Pioneers the right sources and other devices. My Nokia powered my old Pioneer perfectly when I tested it on the spot. Give the old Pioneers the right power and

.

 

[wualta]

Along with many other people, I wish speaker and headphone impedances could be completely described by a single number, but for the vast majority of them, it can't. An 8-ohm rating does mean that a normal speaker amp of good quality won't instantly pop a fuse trying to drive the SE-700. However, most transistor amps are not fond of capacitors as loads, preferring resistors. Most will give it a good try, and usually there'll be no trouble. But the load the SE-700 presents is not as simple as an 8-ohm load that's purely resistive.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack_hobday /img/forum/go_quote.gif Reading the comments made about the product manual, it says its impedance in 8 ohms, if its hard to drive, wouldn't that number be much greater? If I've miss understood what it means, please correct me thanks

I don't see any mention of impedance in any of the HPM headphone documents, actually.

As these drivers are capacitors, their impedance is not flat. At DC, the impedance of this headphone is infinite by definition. It goes down from there as the frequency goes up.

It should be possible to put a nominal impedance number on them, but pioneer doesn't seem to have done that. At any rate, "hard to drive" is hardly measured only in ohms.

 

[pp312]

Boy, this takes me back! I owned the SE-700 from the mid to late 70s, and before that the SE-L40. Seems like I was a Pioneer guy back then. Later I had the Stax Sigma and then Lambda. Never really thought about it before but my headphone journey has been kind of off-beat and interesting.

What do I remember about the sound of the 700? Frankly, only that it was ultimately less satisfying than the SE-L40, maybe because it was more revealing. The 40 was oh, so soothing!

 

[yhong26]

hi,recently bought the Pioneer Se-700,but i realize that the sound out are not balance,right speaker more louder,it let you feel the overall sound come from aside...it is because the cable?can be repair? 

 

[takato14]

I'll be receiving a set of SE-700s soon. Already have the SE-500s, and I agree with the points made in this topic: They're middy and weird.
 
However if they're converted to closed back with a little electrical tape:
 
 

 
The bass is brought up considerably, the soundstage becomes more concise and clear, and it allows you to hear all the things this headphone did right. Like their fast attack and decay, their good detail retrieval, and the good imaging they have. Not to mention it also gives you some isolation and lowers the sound leakage a lot. Normally I wouldn't bump such an old topic but I want anyone who has a set of these to know about this mod, because it makes the headphones sound a LOT better. 

 

[wualta]

Nifty! Thanks! I'll go resurrect my 500s.