Things that can't be measured
Apr 19, 2021 at 8:49 PM Post #16 of 77
@castleofargh @bigshot

I'm a bit amused, but also a bit sad that I have apparently come across as sincere when I was in fact joking. I am a repentant subjectivist that was turned around by your very posts a couple of years ago. I used to be just like that. The post was essentially mocking the typical audiophile. I'm sorry for making you type out a serious reply.
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 10:03 PM Post #17 of 77
@castleofargh @bigshot

I'm a bit amused, but also a bit sad that I have apparently come across as sincere when I was in fact joking. I am a repentant subjectivist that was turned around by your very posts a couple of years ago. I used to be just like that. The post was essentially mocking the typical audiophile. I'm sorry for making you type out a serious reply.

At least you know you nailed the faux “typical audiophile” post!
 
Apr 19, 2021 at 10:05 PM Post #18 of 77
I'm a bit amused, but also a bit sad that I have apparently come across as sincere when I was in fact joking. I am a repentant subjectivist that was turned around by your very posts a couple of years ago. I used to be just like that. The post was essentially mocking the typical audiophile.

Around here, irony is in short supply. We get a steady stream of people saying the exact same thing with a straight face!

Some people come here for no other reason than to do battle. They come out swinging and blustering and throw up smoke, talk about how unscientific we are and then tell us science doesn't know anything. They insult us constantly and if we reply at all in kind, they get mad and offended, notify the admins that they are being abused, and scurry back to the rest of Head-Fi to tell them how awful we are and how they made us all look like monkeys.

Other people seem to think Sound Science is like Survivor or Dancing With The Stars for junior scientists, where everyone is expected to compete until they're "voted off the island". The way to score points is to furiously type out long paragraphs of hyper technical dense techno-speak full of footnotes and irrelevant details and exceptions. If they win, they are accepted into the cast of "regulars" at Sound Science. The best way to win is to needle and nit pick and annoy one of the existing regulars and try to drive him off so they can take his place. (That never works, it just robs the forum of another voice.)

Still others come here with the "Rain Man" syndrome. They vomit out contextless facts without ever following a single train of thought. It doesn't matter if the facts are true or not; and it especially doesn't matter if the facts don't follow the topic of the thread. It's a constant flow of random information that derails discussions and makes everyone forget what we were originally talking about.

And then there are the one trick ponies who will take every opportunity to talk about their own pet topics- hot mastering, vinyl cartridges, the amateur choir they record, their own personal woes. It doesn't matter what anyone else says, they have their own topic and they'll drag every thread over into it.

Lastly there are people who enjoy chatting about how to assemble and set up a great sounding home audio system and use scientific principles to do that. They like helping people set up their first blind test to find things out for themselves. They tend to be practical, focusing on affordable and realistic ways of solving problems, not hyper-expensive and complicated solutions or pie in the sky theories with no application to home audio. They sincerely try to offer suggestions for how to make things better, and learn from other interesting knowledgeable people in the group with the same mindset. But they don't get much of a chance to do that, because all of the oxygen is taken up by the first four types.

I can probably fall into all into all these categories at times. But you can guess where I try to focus my participation. I'm not the only one. There are at least a dozen other people like me here. Threads here disappear into the rear view mirror so fast, and good posts get buried under a huge pile of discussional detritus. I often wrap up my posts with, "Hope this helps." after I offer a suggestion. But in Sound Science, we rarely know if we ever really help anyone. This is a long-winded way of saying, I'm glad we were able to help you.
 
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Apr 20, 2021 at 12:26 AM Post #19 of 77
You can't measure anything about the soul of a person. You can't measure it's mass, energy, or any of its dimensions. I guess it doesn't exist, but then what is consciousness? I think therefore I am?

I'd like one of our smart sound science guys to do an IEM review without listening to it. Since everything is measurable, please do the review and we will have people listen to it to see if you nailed it.
 
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Apr 20, 2021 at 12:43 AM Post #20 of 77
Apr 20, 2021 at 1:30 AM Post #21 of 77
Apr 20, 2021 at 6:50 AM Post #22 of 77
You can't measure anything about the soul of a person. You can't measure it's mass, energy, or any of its dimensions. I guess it doesn't exist, but then what is consciousness? I think therefore I am?

I'd like one of our smart sound science guys to do an IEM review without listening to it. Since everything is measurable, please do the review and we will have people listen to it to see if you nailed it.

What an absurd analogy. Ask for facts and instead get a question about weighing a soul.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 12:58 PM Post #23 of 77
You can't measure anything about the soul of a person. You can't measure it's mass, energy, or any of its dimensions. I guess it doesn't exist, but then what is consciousness? I think therefore I am?

I'd like one of our smart sound science guys to do an IEM review without listening to it. Since everything is measurable, please do the review and we will have people listen to it to see if you nailed it.
It's always the same story. Get a clear question, then we have more chances to know where to start to answer it. Are you asking about the IEM and the sound coming out of it? Or are you in fact asking how that makes you feel? The former is very much about objective data and measurements. The latter is about your own subjective feelings. It's you we would need to study and measure to try and find the answer, not the IEM.
 
Apr 20, 2021 at 3:34 PM Post #24 of 77
I'm not particularly interested in studying him.
 
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Apr 21, 2021 at 6:53 AM Post #26 of 77
Science tells us red light is electromagnetic radiation with wavelength of about 625 - 740 nm.
Science doesn't tell us how much we like the color of a red Ferrari car.

People should learn to separate objective things from subjective. The objective side of audio is often quite straightforward (a decent amp is a decent amp etc.) while the subjective side of audio can be a huge journey of self-reflection where other people have a minimal part in at best. I know how much I like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, but that "subjective measure" has hardly any relevance to other people. You have your own opinion about Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.
 
Jul 7, 2021 at 6:58 AM Post #27 of 77
Things can be heard must can be measured. However, the amplitude transfer function is the most basic measurement that delivers very limited info. There is phase (dispersion, that is different frequency travels with different speed). There is also nonlinearity.
 
Jul 7, 2021 at 7:11 AM Post #28 of 77
Science tells us red light is electromagnetic radiation with wavelength of about 625 - 740 nm.
Science doesn't tell us how much we like the color of a red Ferrari car.

People should learn to separate objective things from subjective. The objective side of audio is often quite straightforward (a decent amp is a decent amp etc.) while the subjective side of audio can be a huge journey of self-reflection where other people have a minimal part in at best. I know how much I like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, but that "subjective measure" has hardly any relevance to other people. You have your own opinion about Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.
Believe or not, there are serious researches on how people like the color of a red Ferrari. These companies do not randomly choose a color. They study it, analyse it. There are many seemingly completely subjective and personal things that can be statistically explained by science. After all, human beings are to a large extent dictated by the chemical substance in our brain and neural systems.
 
Jul 7, 2021 at 1:00 PM Post #29 of 77
Science can't tell you everything buddy! We don't know everything about audio and how it works - its all just magic to a degree - at the end of the day, trust your ears! I've experienced significant gains in my chain by upgrading cables to full nordost and audioquest (I make sure to keep the nordost cables on the analog signals and audioquest on the strictly digital signals to avoid any infetterence). I've also made sure to burn all my gear in - how can science explain that? Hah, thats what I thought. Look guys, we just don't understand everything yet. What happened before the big bang? We just don't know! Same with audio. Just trust your ears!

:dt880smile::floatsmile::):):)
And the earth seems flat to me, so it must be.

And I can't see bacteria, so they must not exist.

Just trust your eyes!

And humans can't hear frequencies above 22kHz, so they don't exist.

Just trust your ears, buddy!!
 
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