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The Zishan dsd's corner

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by neog007, Nov 17, 2016.
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  1. macky112
    i use Google Translate
  2. macky112
    Has anybody ordered a Zishan through MrTao? I want to estimate how much to ship to Los Angeles

    Or if someone could tell me the package weight and I'll try their shipping calculator

  3. T.R.A.N.C.E.
    I was using Digikey's single unit price, it is cheaper in bulk, and your right we should probably be comparing the bulk price like they have mentioned. 
    I kept annoying two different sellers on Taobao, eventually one has said he can do D200+ with AK4497EQ, but cost will be CNY2200, so that's an extra CNY400 just for the dac, that's overpriced, but still only cost $300, in the grand scheme it's a dap that can compete with daps that cost 4x as much!
    I will be the first person on head-fi with a giant killer dap using AK4497EQ [​IMG]
  4. bzfrank
    I am not sure the AK4497S will be just a plus. This DAC needs more power (150mW 4495 -> 346 mW 4497) the main selling points are DSD512 and the new Velvet Sound engine (one additional filter) but frankly I cannot hear the difference between DSD64 and DSD256 right now. Beside there is very little true 512er audio material available.
    Jupiterknight likes this.
  5. musicday
    Trance- definitely interested to know more about this AK4497S.
    Also i would like a D200+ if the battle life is more then 8 hours.
    In your opinion what's the best music player with DSD 256 and up and USB DAC at any price?
    Looking on Aliexpress cannot find much.
    I don't want to buy another Zishan again in case it won't last me long.
  6. T.R.A.N.C.E.

    I'm more interested in how it sounds than arbitrary features. The core sound will have evolved with the hardware changes, it has 64 pins compared to 44 on the previous model, ground and power supply likely improved, the better specs in THD+N, SN, and DR all come from hardware changes that will affect the sound! The added features you speak of are just bonuses.

    Music day, you are out of luck, battery life will not be more than 7 hours. D200 has a big 3800mAH battery, but the high voltage 7.3v analog supply to dac and 10.5v to amp stage means you can't expect long battery life, there is no way around that, the best sound quality requires high voltage!
  7. T.R.A.N.C.E.
    I ordered a LIMITED EDITION RED D200+ AK4497EQ:  https://world.taobao.com/item/544222386929.htm
    Previously a handful of these were made to give to "VIP's", but my whining caused them to make a batch of 18 of them.
    Seriously, I was talking to the manufacturer, for days he was like " sorry, red version only two made for VIP's, AK4497 not in stock, won't be made until several months later at least, after prices come down for AK4497, maybe in 6 months"
    But my whining for D200+ with AK4497 payed off, and seems like the fastest way for him to get a batch done was to use the same colour as the VIP model's, so now we have a shot at the limited edition rose red colour.
    The price is inflated by about $50 versus if you wait several months for the normal colour version, so there is no rush to buy this one I listed, but I didn't want to wait, I want the limited edition rose red colour, and I know it's going to be a sweet dap, !
    If this is better than the D200 V4 which I have now, then this thing is going to rock hard, and it should easily be better with Balanced output, Native DSD, AK4497EQ, Elna Silmic II capacitors, and the returning swappable opamps and +/-10.5V amp analog supply voltage.
    It is literally my dream dap. Only downside is just DSD64 is supported currently, not DSD128+.
    Now my footnote: Previously the Original D200 had AK4495@5V and AMP@12V, the D200 V4 switched to AK4495@7V and AMP@10.5V, this illustrates the balancing act that is required when designing a dap. With limited space there is always trade-offs needed in the design.
    Now from talking to the designer I found out about the new D200+, the increased power consumption of AK4497 (nearly double previous model), means they have to run it at 5V DAC, (keeping 10.5V for amp), oh and Btw D200 V4 is the only dap to have ever run 7V dac supply, the drop to 5V is still actually ahead of some other TOTL daps, for example Sabre dacs only run on a measly 3.3V for example, which is likely part of the reason they lack body compared to the beefy AKM dacs which can handle 7v [​IMG]
    D200+ has 3800mAH battery, Dual pcb's, and 1000uF capacitance for power supply reserves, this is already more than most "TOTL" daps, (*cough AK junk), yet there is still trade-offs required.
    My point becomes, spending big money on expensive daps is a big waste of money If  you think you are getting better audio hardware from Paw Gold, AK380 or DX200 you are wrong, I've seen their pcb's, there is nothing special there, they are just as limited by space as other dap makers, I repeat there is nothing special inside these expensive daps that make them worth more than the cheaper competition, and imo DX200 (or any dap) running dual dacs is a mistake, ibasso will have had to cut some aspect of it's performance in another area just to use dual sabre dacs (more to do with space than power, you also need extra power supply circuitry etc, overall will lower the quality possible compared to using a single dac, eg using the space saved with single dac D200+ uses large value tantalums (the yellow rectangles), but if D200+ was dual dac they would have to use smaller tantalums, reducing the sound quality of the dac output.
    Ask any big name audio engineer, they will all opt for a single dac design for a dap, it is smarter, and will actually sound better than a dual dac if done properly to maximize it's performance. Dual dacs and such are only applicable in desktop applications where power and pcb space have no limits.
    I seriously feel I have to rant about these cost and hardware issues sometimes because so many people just don't get it and think more expensive dap means better performance, or the more dacs the better. No, that's all just marketing. Of course that doesn't mean a $20 dap is all you need, basically to max out the audio hardware of a dap only needs a ~$300 price point is what I'm saying... I'm quite ok with more expensive daps if they have the extra features to back it up like big screen, internal memory, luxury body and case etc, I'm not a cheapo, but I don't enjoy being misled and price gouged by audio companies.
    When will one of the companies publish some tests with single dac vs dual dac in a dap? Never. Why do AK's have no Line out? Purposefully so you can't compare their single vs dual dac players side by side, then AK use different amp sections for their single vs dual daps to make them sound different... Such a Joke. Anyway, end of rant.
    vapman, AudioNewbi3 and neog007 like this.
  8. vapman
    Let's hope those 20 units don't sell out before I get a crack at one. That looks damn fine and I would be honored to have one in my posession. Shouts out to @T.R.A.N.C.E. for the hookup once again.
    My feelings on the high end DAPs are the same as yours, part of why I try to make the Walnut so known  to the community.
  9. AudioNewbi3
    No please no.....just as I was prepared to purchase my Zhisan DSD 560, I took a look at the "Smart" offerings......They look so much better built.
    Is the Smart D90 worth the asking price of 849.00? No DSD support.
  10. T.R.A.N.C.E.
    With the D90, more of the cost has gone into the very sturdy CNC milled body. So in terms of hardware the Zishan is ahead of the D90 in several areas.
    vapman and AudioNewbi3 like this.
  11. musicday
    Will the limited edition D200+ will have firmware updates to make it play DSD 256 in the future or we are stuck with DSD 64?
    Thanks for posting the link and that you have managed to persuade the maker to make extra AK4497 players.
    Maybe he can think to add full SD support instead of micro?
  12. T.R.A.N.C.E.
    Good thought, will ask if full size SD is possible to fit on digital pcb board, probably not though, particularly with D200+ as it has more chip than before for native dsd and extra crystal clock.
    So far they only mentioned maybe DSD128 with firmware update (not definite), the designers at Smart dap are very pragmatic, they say there is barely any music in DSD64 let alone DSD128, so they only designed for the mainstream DSD64, they have to see if the micro-controller they are using can handle processing DSD128.
    The issue for them is increasing the cost of the dap for a more powerful micro-controller just for DSD128+ when most people won't use it, but then you look at Zishan with a beast F7 micro-controller and how cheap that dap is, it's actually funny how little money they must be making on the Zishan lol, but as we know, the QC isn't the best on the Zishan as a result. QC on the Smart D200 daps is top, the PCB looks beautiful, the body is a solid and rather thick cut chunk of CNC aluminium.
    But, with the D200 V4 The UI is worse than the Zishan though, missed button inputs are common, the battery meter changes its reading a lot, just a but funky.
    Edit: D200+ is using 1Ghz MCU, the UI should be smoother and less quirky than D200 V4 thank fully.
  13. akrk
    Can Zishan be installed Rockbox?
  14. musicday
  15. AudioNewbi3
    Guess I will buy my Zhisan DSD 560 according to plan then.
    Thanks for the info once again mate!

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