[buzzbuzz]

Asahi keisei press release :

"..... The AK4493EQ adopts an improved VELVET SOUND architecture, achieving high performances that is even greater than the AK4490EQ, by optimizing the circuit design. The AK4493EQ also adopts AKM’s same original dedicated audio process as the flagship DAC, the VERITA AK4497EQ. This process has improved the original acoustic sound expression that can be found in the sound strength and the data amount. In addition, the AK4493EQ corresponds to high-resolution sound sources, accepting a 22.4MHz DSD maximum input."

If true, that would make the new Zishan Z3 with AK4493 an interesting buy. Z3 is only available at Taobao for $41-44 before shipping.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Asahi keisei press release :

"..... The AK4493EQ adopts an improved VELVET SOUND architecture, achieving high performances that is even greater than the AK4490EQ, by optimizing the circuit design. The AK4493EQ also adopts AKM’s same original dedicated audio process as the flagship DAC, the VERITA AK4497EQ. This process has improved the original acoustic sound expression that can be found in the sound strength and the data amount. In addition, the AK4493EQ corresponds to high-resolution sound sources, accepting a 22.4MHz DSD maximum input."

If true, that would make the new Zishan Z3 with AK4493 an interesting buy. Z3 is only available at Taobao for $41-44 before shipping.

Also Plays multichannel

5.1 DTS Wav!

I wrote this previously but was “fact-check” incorrectly and had to retract my statement because I couldn’t find the source where I read it until now!

I am now sold on its merits. Will order one soon!

Just picked it up on eBay

$50.00 + 2 bucks and change! Shipping (Not bad!)

Updated: There are two cheaper options on EBay 50.44 Free shipping and 49.00 + 2 bucks change.

My impulse buy cost me a Voltage Regulator/Op Amp “find” money

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273735490323

[merged]

 

[LaughMoreDaily]

That new model Z3 is $66 is my currency. I'd rather have a DSD.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

***Spoiler Warning: Don’t Read if you are sensitive to what can be called “a stupid question”***



Crazy Question: Can I connect the Zishan Z3 Motherboard to Ak4497 Dac if the OLED is connected to CPU Stem32 with Cortez Arm thats firmware is upgradable???

That new model Z3 is $66 is my currency. I'd rather have a DSD.

Same. But I’m wondering if I can play multichannel dsds on it???

[merged]

 

[silverfishla]

Also Plays multichannel 5.1 DTS Wav!

I wrote this previously but was “fact-check” incorrectly and had to retract my statement because I couldn’t find the source where I read it until now!

I am now sold on its merits. Will order one soon!

How do you listen to5.1? Is that just for LO to a stereo?

 

[DBaldock9]

How do you listen to5.1? Is that just for LO to a stereo?

Any device that is designed to process and output 5.1 audio, would require 6 amplifier channels - and 3 stereo (2-channel) output jacks.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

How do you listen to5.1? Is that just for LO to a stereo?

Yep, it requires 6 channel output amplifiers but you can stream it out to the line out.

I was thinking about putting the DAC in a car stereo 5 way speakers. 5.1 (1 is the subwoofer) May sound good in the car?! But you’d need to figure out the delay per channels in that setting that create the mono channels on a DAW.

I believe you can run a “pseudo surround sound” 5.1 in 2 channel container with room correction algorithms.

The way it works I believe it’s on delays per channel 15ms to 100ms like the FX delay and reverb simulate in a soundstage in recording like electronics have.

Most voice editing in 2 channel uses the this concept with a the “haas effect” where one channel on the Vocal is delayed to simulate so if feels like the voice is coming for inside your head or into your head.

Surround sound is essentially “buffering” but in real time traveling in space.

DTS WAV or any of DTS codecs is really designed for Cinema. Read the book called “In the Blink of the Eye” about film edit. It rule of thumb is you edit every “blink” you would make in real life.

The dude that wrote also worked on Stars Wars and Dolby Surround Sound was designed to simulate what it be like if you movies were arranged like an orchestra pit. It’s actually a cool origin story. Star War score is based on the concept of leitmotif of the Fantasy German “operas” by Richard Wagner.

 

[kookaudio]

Just got the new AK4493 version of Z3 from the famous Taobao of China , which costs about $4 more than the original AK4490 Z3. My old Z3's PO had been broken with single channel sound out after a year use. Been trying Hiby R3 & M0, I think Z3 is still the best valued mini DAP, so I want to give it a second chance.

Their built-up are almost the same with different DAC use ( I made myself a hi-res Z3 / 4490 with a sticker ). Instead of AK4493, they printed "AK449x" at the back, in case they can change different DAC in future

For the PCB of AK4493 Z3 ( muses02 installed )

About the sound, I think the AK4493 Z3 has more refined sound, more details on background music, with a little bit uplifting in high. It's not a huge upgrade from the original version. So, I suggest to keep the original Z3, and no need to rush for the new version. Anyway, I feel satisfied with the AK4493 Z3, and its worth to pay the extra.

How would you compare the 4493 Z3 to the 4497 DSD, expecially with low impedance iems...?

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

How would you compare the 4493 Z3 to the 4497 DSD, expecially with low impedance iems...?

Well there is less op amps so I would that imagine low impedience iems would sound better and NOT Pseudo balances out with buffer amps?? (But it’s probably not by much)

Honestly it can’t be much difference between Ak4493 to Ak4497 according to the marketing if the circuitry is improved!

I will say that all the Zishan mods I see on this forum I can’t imagine huge improvements other than changing caps and opas since we are limited by its software. Unless you are doing crazy conversions then hardware becomes more important.

For instance, this Zishan Z3 with Ak4493 firmware is limited to 192K in PCM mode whereas the chip itself can sampling a whole lot more!

You might hear an improve or two and clearly if you are not A/B testing and measuring your progress with external sources (multimeter, benchmark,etc) otherwise it all becomes a placebo effect and default limited beliefs.

For a real practical purposes I like to change the 5V voltage regulators to improve battery charging and overall health but not looking forward to some major listening improvements to my Zishan DSD 799 AK4497.

I don’t think that moding like your Nikolai Tesla would greatly improve your Zishan.

Today software is really what pushes cpus and makes them more efficient.

However, an 8 octa core chip with everything that involves for play DSD like upsampling in real time and more digital filters is really what would make the biggest difference with ANY stock high res player in today’s world since they all used the same top-notch DSD conversion chips.

I have this software and for me by far THE best DSD software I can know of but you will need a computer dac for output and a preamp/(headphone) amp/speakers/ to hear it.

(The reason for bring this up is you can more learn about the digital filters for DSD that you are limited to by the Zishan in the Datasheets the dude wrote with the software!
https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html
@Ivan TT)

It’s worth a look just for educational purpose to reading the software datasheet.

Any device that is designed to process and output 5.1 audio, would require 6 amplifier channels - and 3 stereo (2-channel) output jacks.

Just did a quick search a found a 4 channel amp for 25 bucks

Wonder if if you can break the channels in bands via music editing software and eq the channels according to frequencies band width per channel?

Interesting concept for analoging the EQ on the Zishan.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwimtpWbzebgAhWMn58KHWhJDIcYABATGgJxYg&ae=1&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASE-RouiWj-gIHnAwA11A3lut8HKQ&sig=AOD64_2TlSa3qMLvBI0hOws4qf9IoABOFQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwim6Y2bzebgAhXJct8KHWXfA3MQwg96BAgLEDg&adurl=https://ad.atdmt.com/s/go;adv=11272201266550;ec=11272201884407;c.a=1465808290;s.a=google;p.a=1465808290;as.a=57223396219;qpb=1;?bidkw=defaultkeyword&dvc=m&h=https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HA400--behringer-microamp-ha400-4-ch-headphone-amplifier%3Fmrkgcl%3D28%26mrkgadid%3D3301332788%26rkg_id%3D0%26product_id%3DHA400%26campaigntype%3Dshopping%26campaign%3DaaShopping%2520-%2520SKU%2520-%2520Studio%2520%2526%2520Recording%26adgroup%3DStudio%2520Monitors%2520-%2520Behringer%2520-%2520ha400%26placement%3Dgoogle%26adpos%3D1o10%26creative%3D280136034136%26device%3Dm%26matchtype%3D%26network%3Dg&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpraVm83m4AIVjJ-fCh1oSQyHEAQYCiABEgLE6_D_BwE

[merged]

 

[ThanosD]

Just did a quick search a found a 4 channel amp for 25 bucks

Wonder if if you can break the channels in bands via music editing software and eq the channels according to frequencies band width per channel?

Interesting concept for analoging the EQ on the Zishan.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwimtpWbzebgAhWMn58KHWhJDIcYABATGgJxYg&ae=1&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASE-RouiWj-gIHnAwA11A3lut8HKQ&sig=AOD64_2TlSa3qMLvBI0hOws4qf9IoABOFQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwim6Y2bzebgAhXJct8KHWXfA3MQwg96BAgLEDg&adurl=https://ad.atdmt.com/s/go;adv=11272201266550;ec=11272201884407;c.a=1465808290;s.a=google;p.a=1465808290;as.a=57223396219;qpb=1;?bidkw=defaultkeyword&dvc=m&h=https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HA400--behringer-microamp-ha400-4-ch-headphone-amplifier%3Fmrkgcl%3D28%26mrkgadid%3D3301332788%26rkg_id%3D0%26product_id%3DHA400%26campaigntype%3Dshopping%26campaign%3DaaShopping%2520-%2520SKU%2520-%2520Studio%2520%2526%2520Recording%26adgroup%3DStudio%2520Monitors%2520-%2520Behringer%2520-%2520ha400%26placement%3Dgoogle%26adpos%3D1o10%26creative%3D280136034136%26device%3Dm%26matchtype%3D%26network%3Dg&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpraVm83m4AIVjJ-fCh1oSQyHEAQYCiABEgLE6_D_BwE

I don't know about the first part, but the amp you are posting, outputs 4 STEREO signals. It has 4 outputs with 2.0 sound.

On another note: I want to check a discussion about capacitors, but I have to look way too many pages back. At least 15 pages back, in every page, there are at least 6 posts of you (more like 7 to 9), from which the majority, is neither completely off topic, nor on topic, but enough to completely fill the thread, with unrelated stuff. It's normal to sometimes get off topic, or discuss about topics less relative, but not for that many pages. Finding recent comments, and updates has become really hard. You have a habit of posting 3 posts in a row, that kinda complete one another, but add unnecessary "noise", that makes the search of useful feedback, a real pain, and seem like just random, vague thoughts, that cannot actually benefit the discussion.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

I don't know about the first part, but the amp you are posting, outputs 4 STEREO signals. It has 4 outputs with 2.0 sound.

So you would collapse the output into 2 channels or go through a mixer.

On another note: I want to check a discussion about capacitors, but I have to look way too many pages back. At least 15 pages back, in every page, there are at least 6 posts of you (more like 7 to 9), from which the majority, is neither completely off topic, nor on topic, but enough to completely fill the thread, with unrelated stuff. It's normal to sometimes get off topic, or discuss about topics less relative, but not for that many pages. Finding recent comments, and updates has become really hard. You have a habit of posting 3 posts in a row, that kinda complete one another, but add unnecessary "noise", that makes the search of useful feedback, a real pain, and seem like just random, vague thoughts, that cannot actually benefit the discussion.

Is it a 6 to 9 or more like you making it up. You would still have a problem. Everyone has to do that. It’s a continuous thread.

As far as the 4 channels. You put the 5.1 in a 2.1 container. You would collapse the 4 channels into STEREO using an RCA.

The same way you are moding in your Zishan only with an external source and lot of safer. Making complicated or Complicated mods on the Hardware makes for unnecessary issues when you “fix” one thing and break another in the process.

Yes, the thread looks neat with electrical pedagogical terminology and equations but most often (I’ve read) don’t improve the sound.

So Someone else’s “noise” (your quote) is another person’s treasure.

In many of the mods you are trying to split atoms with physical mathematical equations on a Circuit board that we don’t have the origins of many of the components. They aren’t quality controlled.

Moreover why don’t just pose your question about Capacitors instead of taking the opportunity to attack me personally?

Also How do you fix sibilance in recording on Zishan with hardware? or Finding datasheet on dithering without software in the Zishan with limited digital filters and eq?

These questions where posted I’m curious how you would solve these issues?

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

In regards to the Zishan and what I have read and see folks like Ivan try to accomplish.

Ivan is “inspired” by the true balanced sound of the A1. In order to accomplish this you would need two AK4497 chips individually devoted to one channel in mono.

All the Dual AK4490 Dacs are fairly priced at 300+ because they are truly balanced.

Now you can get a “pseudo balance” and software can truly make the one ak4497 more efficient but in computing two at the same level is better than one power two channels. Or you would need a better CPU like an octa core semiconductor.

Think of it like this: Your Brain is a CPU and the ak4497 is a GPU only has certain functioning skills if you multi task in the region of brain yes the “smart” ones can eat and chew gum at the same time but by nature our human brains aren’t design to multitask at the same of level of performance unless you increase Ram and core levels in that region.

I watched the CES presentation of the new Ak4499 and the datasheet specs ONLY get achieved when they are undervalued. The Ak4499 is a 4 chan. That means it’s capable of 4 channel with 4channel op amps but it’s ability to perform true balanced is diminished by 4 channels. So running a higher spec sheet with 4 Chan at those levels than the Ak4497 is a giant leap in stereo.

That’s why I laugh when I see the latest Ivan Changelog and only take the simple changes seriously for practical use.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Try 4:
Replaced the LDOs and oscilators, as recommended by @Ivan TT:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-zishan-dsds-corner.826185/page-57#post-14300445
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-zishan-dsds-corner.826185/page-61#post-14371597

I'll resume his mod here:
(some termination letters in replacement chips can be different)

3,3V LDO (6 units in DAC and CPU boards):
Stock markings: DE=1AD
Replacement: LP5907MFX-3.3/NOPB
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/lp5907mfx-3.3nopb/texas-instruments

5V LDO (1 unit in DAC board):
Stock markings: 4BMD
Replacement: TPS73250DBVR
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/tps73250dbvr/texas-instruments

Oscilator replacements (1 unit each):
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/dsc1001di2-049.1520/microchip-technology
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/dsc1001di2-045.1584/microchip-technology

My impressions:
To me this was a "big" improvement, all the tiny problems I could identify in sound disappeared, attack and decay is now well defined with more impact, to sum it, it has a more definition and sounds right.
I can now change to other opamps that have more resolution, but before reveled problems in sound, now they reveal their character.
Same thing with caps, now it's ok to reveal definition, there's no need to hide some previous (tiny) problems in sound

This mod is a winner, thanks Ivan!

Yep seems very practical mods to do! All he did was cross reference parts that are genuine and quality controlled and replace the cheap fake stock ones.

I will not mind buying used DSD for experiments
Must be heavily discounted though, as the plan is to run it into the ground testing mods.

You be the judge!

[merged]

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

The Zishan Z3 with Ak4493 can play 5.1 dts WAV. Which means it can play a WAV file with a DTS codecs laced inside of it. Therefore it requires a decoder to play it.

I have successfully converted dts wav files into Dsd with the dts codecs but can’t play them. I wonder with the new Zishan if it’s possible if not then I wonder if it plays 5.1 dsd files. Would be pretty rad to hear Pink Floyd’s The Wall in 5.1 on it.

Again not that complicated to understand.

 

[Ivan TT]

TPS73250 rocks (ordered, awaiting delivery)

Arrived, soldered in.

I do believe it offers improvement in dynamics (especially in low end) and soundstage, more vivid sound over the stock VREF LDO.
Given its price and relative ease of replacement (probably could be done using only thin soldering iron, but hot air station makes it a breeze, pun intended! ) I'd say its as an essential mod as changing those LPF opamps (or removing them completely). Not sure about extra capacitors on VREF though, I used to have about 1000uF, currently "only" about 220uF but have 2 1000uF electrolytic caps that should fit...

So TPS73250 rocks indeed!

Next project is separating TVDD and AVDD, already done by one member here by the way.

Spoiler

For the reference: VREF TVDD and AVDD meaning could be easily found in AK4497EQ datasheet, I'm just showing off my knowledge of cool mysterious abbreviations